If I had my way and I could make the Devs put these features in I would have...

[Jeffrey Miller]

Post here the things you would like to see added in game. For me it would be the following: A supply train we can rob, a steam train we can rob or liberate, a corral that we can liberate horses from, articles that we can win to decorate our tents (captured sword or flag awarded by actually capturing a flag/sword from a flag bearer/Officer) or that have been captured and are permanent. There are more but these are thew first that come to mind. What do you guys think?

[R21]

Destruction/terrain deformation ::

Would add so much to the Game. I can see buildings being focal defense points and due to the lack of anything in the way of destruction Cannons will be nowhere near as effective as they should be, along with people taking cover behind stuff that shouldn't stop a Bullet/Cannon Ball in general.

I see lots of wooden fences in the Videos and i'm hoping at the very least bullets go through them and systems are put in place to compensate for what i've mentioned above (Like if a cannon ball were to hit the wall of a House you'd have something simulating Shrapnel going everywhere inside).

[Jeffrey Miller]

Destruction/terrain deformation ::

Would add so much to the Game. I can see buildings being focal defense points and due to the lack of anything in the way of destruction Cannons will be nowhere near as effective as they should be, along with people taking cover behind stuff that shouldn't stop a Bullet/Cannon Ball in general.

I see lots of wooden fences in the Videos and i'm hoping at the very least bullets go through them and systems are put in place to compensate for what i've mentioned above (Like if a cannon ball were to hit the wall of a House you'd have something simulating Shrapnel going everywhere inside).

In the video they put out not to long ago the devs said they were working on destruction but as of now nothing. They would need penetration values and all that to make it happen.

[Fancy Sweetroll]

I see lots of wooden fences in the Videos and i'm hoping at the very least bullets go through them and systems are put in place to compensate for what i've mentioned above (Like if a cannon ball were to hit the wall of a House you'd have something simulating Shrapnel going everywhere inside).

Bullets are already able to pass through certain objects ;) We havent finetuned all the values yet, but the chance for it to penetrate will depend on which material it is, wood, rock, and the distance between the enter point and the exit point.

[R21]

Great, will that extend to cannons? I realize fully simulated destruction probably isn't do-able (Like an actual hole being put in a wall by one) but it'd be nice to have a modified version of what you mention above (cannon projectile hits wall/Multiple smaller off-shoots and shrapnel fly into room) along with some kind of shock effect for anyone inside.

I just think it'll be a bit underwhelming if people are sniping through Windows and don't see a Cannon as even being a threat because they can just hide behind the wall and when it's fired, pop back out.

[Jeffrey Miller]

Great, will that extend to cannons? I realize fully simulated destruction probably isn't do-able (Like an actual hole being put in a wall by one) but it'd be nice to have a modified version of what you mention above (cannon projectile hits wall/Multiple smaller off-shoots and shrapnel fly into room) along with some kind of shock effect for anyone inside.

I just think it'll be a bit underwhelming if people are sniping through Windows and don't see a Cannon as even being a threat because they can just hide behind the wall and when it's fired, pop back out. Agreed.

[R21]

This is stuff from the 'Battle Cry Freedom' Game Website (I'm assuming it's known here):

http://www.flyingsquirrelent.eu/about.html


Maps
Spawns
You spawn with, or close to, your squad. How close you can spawn depends on your side’s zone of control. Your zone of control is a dynamic area between “your” edge of the map and the location of your squads. If both sides have squads in the same area it will not belong to anyone’s zone, and how close you can spawn depends on how many troops your side has in the area compared to the enemy. Squads operating behind enemy lines might not be able to get any reinforcements at all (or rather, all reinforcements would spawn on the “wrong” side of the enemy).

Obstacles
Obstacles play a major role on maps. Obstacles like fences, walls and destroyed bridges cannot easily be crossed. For example, climbing over fences will make you very vulnerable.

Destruction
Everything in the game is destructible. Small objects can be destroyed by normal firearms and swords, medium objects can be destroyed by several firearm hits and sword hits and large objects can be destroyed by artillery. Destroying objects has a large impact on gameplay. Since the battlefield is constantly changing, players have to find new tactics to reach their goals. Players have to think and to adjust their tactics every time they play a map.

Capture points/Goals
Goals for maps can be different on each map. Most likely it would be a goal to capture/defend a certain position or to destroy an enemy position, artillery position etc. But goals can also be dedicated to squads. For example, a sniper squad might get the goal to kill an enemy officer or a artillery squad might get the goal to give supporting fire.

2018

That Game seems to have a focus on destruction, though whether it's going to be released and resemble whats on paper I don't know.


Destruction
Everything in the game is destructible.

Seems like quite a high water mark.

[TrustyJam]

Destruction is not a primary point of focus for us. We'd like to support some sort of destruction but it will never be anything close to, say, Battlefield standards. Instead, we spend that extra server power otherwise required to make sure all of the destructibles actually are synched between the players, to increase player numbers.

- Trusty

[Arkansan]

Player numbers > Cool effects

[R21]

Not effects, Game-play changing features.

Like i've said in previous posts if they don't find a way to simulate this with Cannons they'll be kind of pointless, think about it from a Game-play perspective ::

Infantry in open :

Players take Ages to load round-shot, they then fire at a line and if they're lucky hit 2 or so people if lines are stacked behind eachother. In that instance it just becomes a slow loading Glorified Sniper rifle. Some kind of area/Splash Damage effect is needed here.

Infantry firing out of Building ::

Infantry in Building taking Pot-Shots, cannon can clearly see Building and fires a shot but due to Engine limitations the Ball hits a wall/Window Frame and is De-spawned. People in Building continue firing and see the Cannon as less of a threat than one enemy Soldier with a Rifle (He's mobile, can reload faster and isn't standing staticly behind a Cannon).

That is not the way it should be at all, Teams should fear buildings being targeted by Cannons and they should be one of the main threats to fortified positions:

https://youtu.be/cix07R1vlhI?t=733

thats the kind of effect I mean, rooms being peppered with projectiles + a concussion effect for anyone in the room tahts hit.

And all that work they put into Player numbers will be severely dampened if details like this just get overlooked.

[rebeldestroyer]

I agree you don't have to make the building physically and visually destructible just make it so cannon balls release shrapnel in a different diameter depending on the caliber of the cannon and other factors and maybe a little dust effect on the inside of the house. I know this isn't the most realistic game but with War Thunder tank battles when a round penetrates a tank there is simulated shrapnel that can kill crew members.

[Maximus Decimus Meridius]

i would be happy to see a gap where the cannon ball flew through the house. i dont need some simulated physic based animation for every toothpick.

[Jeffrey Miller]

i would be happy to see a gap where the cannon ball flew through the house. i dont need some simulated physic based animation for every toothpick. That would be nice, a big hole where it hit.

[Patrick Kurtz]

If any of you have ever played Heroes and generals, it's pretty disappointing when fire fire a shell from a 70 mm cannon at a building and it does next to nothing. I too would like to see some of those effects, but after a solid game is out

[Jeffrey Miller]

If any of you have ever played Heroes and generals, it's pretty disappointing when fire fire a shell from a 70 mm cannon at a building and it does next to nothing. I too would like to see some of those effects, but after a solid game is out
Play it all the time but you do get kills firing ap shells in to buildings through windows. It would be so much better if you could see damage to the buildings other than decals that wear off!

[R21]

Exactly, it happens in most Games (Even something like RO2 which is supposedly highly realistic) you have HE shells in that Game but they're only good against buildings that are already destroyed and have big holes to fire through or through windows (they have a splash damage effect):

http://i.imgur.com/rbmusig.png

like that building, you'd be able to fire through the windows that have broken frames with Tank Shells, but the others that have fully intact frames the Shells would just get caught/explode on the Window Frames. If you hit a wall, Zero penetration meaning the only thing Infantry have to fear is a Tank putting a HE shell through an already open Window.

From what i've seen of WOR Media the windows of houses are quite small and have frames (and there's no Damage to them, they're all intact) meaning cannons will be trying to hit people popping in and out of these Windows. This will make Artillery about half as useful as it should be, you basically won't be able to call in a barrage on troops taking cover ina building due to this limitation (You could, but it'd be completely ineffective).

[William]

You all gys forget this is still a little team not a big team like arma or battlefield what can every thing like this games in the same amount of time :)

[R21]

They already have a Bullet penetration model in apparently, i'm no programmer but wouldn't it just be a case of up-scaling this and altering it for Cannons?

It'd be more Complex to have the Shrapnel effect in rooms along with concussion effect but I don't see why this wouldn't be do-able.

https://youtu.be/XCADVi8zLEw?t=230

https://youtu.be/np73onJ9fp0?t=465


General Gillmore reported in his after-action assessment of the siege by his artillery, “Good rifled guns, properly served can breach rapidly” at 1600–2000 yards when they are followed by heavy round shot to knock down loosened masonry. The 84-pounder James is unexcelled in breaching, but its grooves must be kept clean.[67] The 13-inch mortars had little effect.[52] The new 30-pounder Parrott Rifle had made a major impact on the battle. The rifled cannon fired significantly further with more accuracy and greater destructive impact than the smoothbores then in use. Its application achieved tactical surprise unanticipated by senior commanders of either side.[17]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Siege_of_Fort_Pulaski#/media/File:AngleofUnionFireatFortPulaski.jpg

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Siege_of_Fort_Pulaski#/media/File:TyFortPulaskiDamagedWall20050420r12f12.jpg


Heavy rifled batteries penetrated the fort's walls in three places at the southeast corner (center), while smoothbore guns merely shook walls “in a random manner

They had Guns capable of doing that to reinforced Forts (Both Smooth-bore and Rifled) scale that down to Houses/Stone-walls/shacks etc and the Cannon should be ripping right through.

[MisterMeatball]

Good, realistic feeling movement and aiming.

Okay this might seem like a small thing, but one that I think is incredibly important to immersion. The game that I feel has done it the best so far is Red Orchestra 2. So in that game your characters movement has inertia to it, and when moving there is a very slight camera shake, not one that is super overdone, but just enough to give a feeling of hurried human movement. This makes you feel like a grunt scurrying around a battlefield instead of just a floating camera with a gun sticking out of it. While not aiming down sights your gun has a bit of a deadzone, so the barrel isn't always pointing at the center of your screen. While aiming down sights your gun sways with your characters breathing, the more winded and unsupported, the heavier the sway. This has the same effect as what I described with the movement. While there are many ways in which I am disappointed with RO2, they absolutely nailed the way the character feels to walk, run, and aim. I know the devs already have an idea with how the characters will move, but I hope it is done in a way that invokes the same feeling of immersion as that does.

Why I still prefer Red Orchestra 1 instead of 2 was that RO2 was just too arcady for me. While RO2 nailed the little things it was just too fast paced for my liking. RO1's weapons were a bit clunkier to use, aimed and reloaded slower, and had a ton of recoil. This lead to firefights taking a lot longer in RO1. With slow and careful pushes street by street, inch by inch. Instead of getting shot the split second you were spotted in RO2, RO1's firefights as a whole were brutal and desperate exchanges of fire, with both players struggling to control their weapons, limbs getting hit, weapons getting shot out of hands, and the occasional bayonet charge. The overall feel of a how a match or even an engagement progressed in RO1 was just so more authentic and enjoyable, even if the weapons had too much recoil and the movement was unrealistically clunky. The reason that I bring this up is that I know the developers want to bring a similar feeling to the matches and engagements in their final product, and I have no doubt that they will succeed in that. I just hope that they remember about the little immersive things such as a realistic feeling of movement in the process.

If anyone is curious to what I am talking about, here is a link to some random gameplay: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y-4rud7lnwc

[R21]

Yeh, RO1 was just a way more complete and fun Game, RO2 feels like they tried to appease everyone and just made a mess of a Game:

http://forums.tripwireinteractive.com/showthread.php?t=86734

http://forums.tripwireinteractive.com/showpost.php?p=1171197&postcount=26

RO2 just never felt right to me, I was basically expecting RO1 but better and it never was that. Like said in the post I quoted above the Maps and spawning have always felt completely off, like they never left the Beta testing phase. I feel that way about the entire Game actually, it feels like a half realized concept.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Lj8xZ0uq80Q

As an example, imagine playing the map Konigsplatz in RO2 (like if it were ported to that Game 1:1 in terms of layout and spawns) it just would not work in RO2, the Russians wouldn't be able to get out of their spawn, yet it worked and was probably one of the most fun maps in the original RO.

http://pdahelp.info/Windows%20XP%20and%20Vista/Games/red%20orchestra/Konigsplatz.jpg

[William]

Post here the things you would like to see added in game. For me it would be the following: A supply train we can rob, a steam train we can rob or liberate, a corral that we can liberate horses from, articles that we can win to decorate our tents (captured sword or flag awarded by actually capturing a flag/sword from a flag bearer/Officer) or that have been captured and are permanent. There are more but these are thew first that come to mind. What do you guys think?



would be nice but.....this game is for me more a battle-game and so on, if you add all stuff around you can make a ACW MMORPG XD

[R21]

People have joked about it but I could genuinely see something set in the same era as WOR and with similar mechanics making a good survival Game. Peoples main Complaints with Games like Day Z are getting Sniped from nowhere and people KOS'ing with Fully Auto Weapons, if people were running around with Muskets with limited Ammo and Bayonets it'd completely change this aspect imo.

[Landree]

Having actually ran around in the uniform and kits, RO1 is not unrealistically clunky or the like. Reloading at best takes as long as it does in game and of your character feels like a fat kid, that happens when you're sprinting over uneven terrain carrying 60lbs. of gear and ammunition. The rifle mechanics were absolutely phenomenal in the game and the suppression effects in the Darkest Hour modification are spot on. RO2 is way too accurate, not enough suppression, and added stuff into the game that makes my head as an amateur historian spin.

Then again, I was part of the very large realism community that was hyped for the game's release just to see a train wreck and more money going into RammJaeger's dragon shirt collection.

I always thought if a WWI mod were made for RO1 it'd have even better mechanics (if able to add in a gas /gas mask system) than Verdun.

[David Dire]

People have joked about it but I could genuinely see something set in the same era as WOR and with similar mechanics making a good survival Game. Peoples main Complaints with Games like Day Z are getting Sniped from nowhere and people KOS'ing with Fully Auto Weapons, if people were running around with Muskets with limited Ammo and Bayonets it'd completely change this aspect imo.

Actually, something I've always though would be cool is a an Apocalyptic/fallout-esque 18th century game. So, basically Fallout (As in the game) except in the 18th century. It'd probably make little sense how the world devolved into that (maybe a meteorite?) but it would be pretty fun/interesting.

[SHoGUN]

People have joked about it but I could genuinely see something set in the same era as WOR and with similar mechanics making a good survival Game. Peoples main Complaints with Games like Day Z are getting Sniped from nowhere and people KOS'ing with Fully Auto Weapons, if people were running around with Muskets with limited Ammo and Bayonets it'd completely change this aspect imo.

I love that you often think like me haha. I really wanted a survival game to come out based in 18th/19th century, well before Dayz came out. It could've worked so nicely

[Maximus Decimus Meridius]

I love that you often think like me haha. I really wanted a survival game to come out based in 18th/19th century, well before Dayz came out. It could've worked so nicely

I dreamed about that too. a couple of guys form a military unit and build up a small base. They have to collect ammunition, food etc and a faction leader call them to battle.

War of Rights is very close i think.

[R21]

Then again, I was part of the very large realism community that was hyped for the game's release just to see a train wreck and more money going into RammJaeger's dragon shirt collection.



Similar situation with me, I had hyped that Game since the very first Media had been released and it was a massive let-down. The very worst part is when you've been doing this and finally get to play the Game, at first you make excuses then it slowly sinks in it's nowhere near what you expected it to be.




I always thought if a WWI mod were made for RO1 it'd have even better mechanics (if able to add in a gas /gas mask system) than Verdun.

I'm not a fan of Verdun in it's current state but I still hold onto some hope because the developers seem to like completely overhauling aspects of the Game. As much as I slam RO2 if someone had done a WW1 total conversion for that Game and considerably altered the mechanics it could've been good:

http://www.moddb.com/mods/grabenkrieg

http://www.moddb.com/mods/immersion-overhaul-mod

The second mod tries to make RO2 more like RO1 in terms of Gameplay and mechanics, if that WW1 mod in the first link had done something similar it could've been fun.

WW1 mod for RO1 would've been nice as-well, it's an era that barely ever gets touched in FPS'.


I love that you often think like me haha. I really wanted a survival game to come out based in 18th/19th century, well before Dayz came out. It could've worked so nicely

haha, You mostly get Modern and Medieval Survival Games, they're missing a trick by not looking at this era.

[MisterMeatball]

Well then I stand corrected about the movement and reloading.

I completely agree with what you and R21 say about RO2. Hope I see you two on Darkest Hour sometime as I play on the 29th server quite often. I really hope Tripwire gets back on track, but after their handling of Killing Floor 2's EA I am quickly losing hope. We will see about Rising Storm 2.

I see a lot in Campfire Games that I saw in Tripwire when they worked on the RO mod and ostfront. Its this dedication to authenticity and realism that I look for in game developers. It is the reason I took the leap to help them on their way. I just hope the game they are crafting elicits the same sense of white-knuckle immersion that RO1s and DHs matches give. Just with me with me cutting down lines of Yanks this time instead of hordes of Reds.

[TrustyJam]

Well then I stand corrected about the movement and reloading.

I completely agree with what you and R21 say about RO2. Hope I see you two on Darkest Hour sometime as I play on the 29th server quite often. I really hope Tripwire gets back on track, but after their handling of Killing Floor 2's EA I am quickly losing hope. We will see about Rising Storm 2.

I see a lot in Campfire Games that I saw in Tripwire when they worked on the RO mod and ostfront. Its this dedication to authenticity and realism that I look for in game developers. It is the reason I took the leap to help them on their way. I just hope the game they are crafting elicits the same sense of white-knuckle immersion that RO1s and DHs matches give. Just with me with me cutting down lines of Yanks this time instead of hordes of Reds.

Thank you for the confidence. We'll do our best not to disappoint you. :)

- Trusty

[rebeldestroyer]

Will the combat system be similar to Kingdom come Deliverance.

Don't say it's not possible the game is made with cry engine and they are also a very small studio:cool:

[R21]

I personally think KCD has a horrible Combat system, it's really light weight and unsatisfying. i'd prefer they do something similar to Chivalry as it'd work way better in the context of an online Game with multiple Players.

[rebeldestroyer]

The chivalry combat is a little bit arcadey in my opinion but I do like the whole strike parry dodge system. I agree with you on the KCD combat but I like that you can attack from different angles.

[TrustyJam]

Will the combat system be similar to Kingdom come Deliverance.

Don't say it's not possible the game is made with cry engine and they are also a very small studio:cool:

they are 30 (or 70? can't remember) with a budget bigger than 40 times of ours - wouldn't call them "Very small".

- Trusty

[rebeldestroyer]

But they aren't a "big" studio either

[A. P. Hill]

Many here, I think, fail to realize what is involved behind the scenes in making these community ideas functional. Each and every seemingly simple request may require a month or more of man hours to implement. As TrustyJam says, it is unfair to make comparisons to other endeavors based solely on a game engine. The point again is 70 people and a monetary budget 40 times larger than Campfire's, means they have more resources to throw at community ideas than we currently do.

And nothing was said that "your", (that's a plural "your", meaning the community as a whole, and not a singular "your" pointed to an individual, ) would not happen in WoR, it just may take more time than someone else who has resources available.

And a 70 person operation with a half a million dollar budget, is anything but small! ;)

[R21]

https://youtu.be/n0sK7Xqfvpc?t=140

Does WOR even have Mo-Cap stuff?

They make it sound really impressive in that video, but in practice (from what i've played) it's not very fun or satisfying:

https://youtu.be/tZTjyofdLnQ?t=681

Chivalrys Combat is way more fun, it might not look as good or have as impressive collision and Animations but from a point of view of play-ability and feedback it's way better imo. Like if they implemented a system as in-depth as KCD' it wouldn't work well with multiple players as you'd be locking on to one opponent at a time.

[Hinkel]

https://youtu.be/n0sK7Xqfvpc?t=140

Does WOR even have Mo-Cap stuff?

They make it sound really impressive in that video, but in practice (from what i've played) it's not very fun or satisfying:

https://youtu.be/tZTjyofdLnQ?t=681

Chivalrys Combat is way more fun, it might not look as good or have as impressive collision and Animations but from a point of view of play-ability and feedback it's way better imo. Like if they implemented a system as in-depth as KCD' it wouldn't work well with multiple players as you'd be locking on to one opponent at a time.

Well, Kingdom Come has a 40 times bigger budget then we have. They can effort such mo-cap animations ;) (it costs some ten-tousands a day)

Besides that, War of Rights will be an unique game, with own ideas and gameplay mechanism. Of course we know, that some other games have interesting concepts too, but there is no need to link to every game and "demand" a copy/paste of various features :)

[R21]

I wasn't demanding a Copy paste, I was just pointing out that Chivalry does a very good job of Melee stuff in an online Game so to ignore what they've done given how similar your situations are makes no sense:


IG: Did you use martial artists with motion capture technologies for the moves set’s?
If so, how did you go about finding them and adapting their moves to the style and right feel of the characters?

Steve Piggott: We had one animator, and no motion capture at all. So it was all just from reference of our favourite movies and online research.

You probably have more resources to throw at it by the sounds of things.

[Virus]

I think that a sort of establish-able front line base would be very interesting.