Eventual Universal Rank System (Out of Game)

[Prinz]

For uniform and the sake of Ease I suggest that the CSA eventually have a uniform rank structure between as many Companies as possible

Here are the ranks suggested:






Enlisted:
- Cadet
Entry level rank. Must complete 2 Drills and 2 Events, and have a basic
understanding of maneuvers and commands before becoming a member of
the Enlisted and attaining the rank of Private.

- Private
Officially a part of the Enlisted Ranks. May apply for a Battalion Staff
Position. Responsible for firing on targets in combat, make up bulk of the
Battalion (at least 80%), must be proficient in maneuvers and understand
commands in-game as well as the forums out of game. Expected to attend
Drills on a regular basis or post an excuse.

- Senior Service
SS [or Senior Service] is a title a Private can earn after 2 months time
in Grade, as well as dedicated and distinguished service to the Battalion; it is
represented with the above title of recognition - however they are still the
same as every other Private)

NCOs:
- Corporal
Assistant Picket Leader, responsible for setting an example for lower Enlisted
members, and dressing the line in battle

- Sergeant
Picket Leader, responsible for morale, training and discipline of Picket, ends
and middle of line in battle - responsible for dressing the line and tending wounds

- Company Quartermaster Sergeant
The Company Quartermaster Sergeant is the Head Adjutant of the Company.
He is responsible for Company Drill & Battle Reports as well as other clerk duties for
the Company.

- First Sergeant
The First Sergeant is the Company Senior Non-Commissioned Officer. He
oversees all Enlisted Personnel of a Company and is primarily responsible for
ensure that the Company maintains an acceptable state of readiness. He is also
responsible for maintaining discipline within the Company.

- Battalion Quartermaster Sergeant
The Battalion Quartermaster Sergeant is the Head Adjutant of the Battalion.
He is responsible for Company Drill & Battle Reports as well as other clerk duties for
the Battalion.

- Sergeant Major
The Sergeant Major is the Battalion Senior Non-Commissioned Officer. He
oversees all Enlisted Personnel of a Battalion and is primarily responsible for
ensure that the Battalion maintains an acceptable state of readiness. He is also
responsible for maintaining discipline within the Battalion.

Officers:
- Second Lieutenant
A Second Lieutenant is the lowest ranking Commissioned Officer, he holds
the position of Platoon Leader, however in rare cases he may be elevated to
company level command. His duties are to ensure that his platoon is active, and
ready to deploy at a moment’s notice.

- First Lieutenant
The First Lieutenant is normally an Executive Officer of a company or may
be in a staff position. It is the job of the First Lieutenant to be the second in
command of a company and to assist the Company Commander in anyway the
Company Commander sees fit.

- Captain
The Captain serves as the commander of a Company, although he may be
in a Battalion level staff position. He is in charge of leading the Company in
combat as well as leading the Company in their administrative duties.

- Major
The Major serves as the commander of the Battalion. He is in charge of
leading the Battalion in combat as well as leading the Battalion in their
administrative duties.

[MacMillan]

Here here!

[thomas aagaard]

Why not stick to historical ranks and jobs?

-----
Cadet was just that, a cadet and was actually the most senior NCO rank... but since they where not part of infantry companies or battalions that was not really an issue.

Just call him a recruit.

There was no company Quartermaster Sergeant in the infantry company. The 1st sergeant was responsible for drill, the weapons and paperwork. (as have been debated a number of times)

And the battalion Quartermaster Sergeant had a job that did not involve any role on the battlefield or drill field...
So why even use that rank?


Senior Service -> Is that actually the name used in the regulations?

[MacMillan]

Why not stick to historical ranks and jobs?

-----
Cadet was just that, a cadet and was actually the most senior NCO rank... but since they where not part of infantry companies or battalions that was not really an issue.

Just call him a recruit.

There was no company Quartermaster Sergeant in the infantry company. The 1st sergeant was responsible for drill, the weapons and paperwork. (as have been debated a number of times)

And the battalion Quartermaster Sergeant had a job that did not involve any role on the battlefield or drill field...
So why even use that rank?


Senior Service -> Is that actually the name used in the regulations?

The Quartermaster Sergeant acted as the Adjutant for the Company hence why there is a Company Q/M Sgt. and a Battalion Q/M Sgt. - The 1st Sergeant is responsible for Drill and keeping the men in line on and off the Battlefield - he's basically the "Sheriff" or "Hard Ass" of the Company if you will. The First Sergeant was not responsible for paperwork or weapons however - those duties fell on the Q/M Sgt and BQ/M Sgt. They were responsible for rations, ammo, supplies, casualty reports, as well as other clerk duties. I have no idea where you are getting the idea that the First Sergeant did paperwork - that is a Battlefield commission and it's responsibilities are just that - on the Battlefield. I also don't like how people are like... "OHHH That wasn't a rank used in Battle so we shouldn't use it." Personally I am going for historical accuracy same with the 23rd North Carolina. My Battalion has personnel files, LOA's, Drill Excuses, Battle Reports and other clerk duties that need attending to. It would be ludicrous to ask my FSgt. to do that above all his other responsibility and I don't believe it's fair to just have a Sergeant do it with no recognition of their work. Thus we have the Company Quartermaster Sergeant and the Battalion Quartermaster Sergeant. Just because they weren't "used" on the Battlefield does not mean that they had a lasting impact on the war itself or helped the Company/Battalion operate in an efficient manner where the duties were spread out in such a manner that people didn't have too many jobs, or weren't recognized for the jobs that they were doing. As for Senior Service - a person who enlisted during the Civil War had 2 years that they signed up for - if they came back after that time, they would be given a Service Stripe - they were known as "Senior Service Privates" or "Authentic Campaigner" - so yes - it was something that was used during the Civil War. I myself having been a reenactor for over 10 years have two service stripes (since my reenactment group hands them out every five years). As for Recruit vs. Cadet; Cadet is a term that they used to refer to soldiers that hadn't been given their full military "education" yet, if you will. I guess you could call them either or, but Cadet seems more period correct to me, and there are many accounts of Officers writing about their men during training - before they saw conflict - referring to their green troops as "Cadets" My two cents ^^

[Arkansan]

I'm sure the Company Tool will have set historical ranks your company must adhere to.

[RhettVito]

I'm sure the Company Tool will have set historical ranks your company must adhere to.

(Out of Game) ranks this is more of TS ranks is what he is saying but all historical ranks will be used ingame . Also - Senior Service a more of a title more than a rank they are still a Pvt ingame and in TS its just to show they have been with the company for 2 mo

[thomas aagaard]

Sure hope so... Because so many reenactores think that just because their group do some thing... then it must be historical.
And so few people actually read the primary sources them self...

Please note that I naturally respect your right to organize in what ever way you want out of the game... but since you want other CSA units to use this system I do think making it more historical would be better.
And you are not correct in some of the things you write.


Paper work.
I got the idea that the 1st Sergeant is responsible for the paper work from our primary sources.
In this case "Kautz NCOs" § 424
He keeps the rosters, and makes all the details; he superintends the company clerk, and assists
him in making out all the required papers. These duties are fully explained in “The
Company Clerk,” and are, therefore, omitted here.

Kautz latter add that he (the first sergeant) don't have to do the actual writing himself.. .that is what he got the company clerk for... But it still have to be done under his direction.


There is no company Quartermaster Sergeant.... (in the infantry)
the book also have a list of the different ranks in the infantry company
294.The non-commissioned officers of a regiment and company, allowed by law in the various
arms and regiments of the army, are as follows, viz.:—
INFANTRY AND ARTILLERY
(Old Army.)
Non-Commissioned Staff
One Sergeant Major
One Quartermaster Sergeant.
Two Principal Musicians.

Each Company.
One First Sergeant.
Three Sergeants.
Four Corporals.

295. Volunteer regiments of infantry differ from the above in having one commissary sergeant
and one hospital steward, and no principal musicians, in the non-commissioned staff and four
sergeants and eight corporals in each company.

He is also clear about what a cadet is... and he call new soldiers for "recruits"

And yes Kautz is a union officer... but his work is based on the US regulations. And since the CSA just copied the US regulations most of what he writes is just as correct for the CSA army. (one thing that is not, is how the army saw the idea of "veterans"...)



they were known as "Senior Service Privates" or "Authentic Campaigner" -
You might be correct, since this is an area where the two sides did handle things differently... but I would like to see a source on that...

In the north men who had served one enlistment (min. 9 month) and signed up again was called "Veteran Volunteer"
(before the war it was min. 5 years)

Also I do believe most CSA soldiers signed up for 1 year at the very start of the war. A bit later in 1861 it was 3 year enlistments.
And by early 1862 the CSA congress instituted the draft... and extended all 1 year enlistments to 3 years... so I do not think 2 year enlistments was the norm in the south... (and in the north 2 year enlistment was not an option until summer of 1864)

[RhettVito]

Sure hope so... Because so many reenactores think that just because their group do some thing... then it must be historical.
And so few people actually read the primary sources them self...

Please note that I naturally respect your right to organize in what ever way you want out of the game... but since you want other CSA units to use this system I do think making it more historical would be better.
And you are not correct in some of the things you write.


Paper work.
I got the idea that the 1st Sergeant is responsible for the paper work from our primary sources.
In this case "Kautz NCOs" § 424
He keeps the rosters, and makes all the details; he superintends the company clerk, and assists
him in making out all the required papers. These duties are fully explained in “The
Company Clerk,” and are, therefore, omitted here.

Kautz latter add that he (the first sergeant) don't have to do the actual writing himself.. .that is what he got the company clerk for... But it still have to be done under his direction.


There is no company Quartermaster Sergeant.... (in the infantry)
the book also have a list of the different ranks in the infantry company
294.The non-commissioned officers of a regiment and company, allowed by law in the various
arms and regiments of the army, are as follows, viz.:—
INFANTRY AND ARTILLERY
(Old Army.)
Non-Commissioned Staff
One Sergeant Major
One Quartermaster Sergeant.
Two Principal Musicians.

Each Company.
One First Sergeant.
Three Sergeants.
Four Corporals.

295. Volunteer regiments of infantry differ from the above in having one commissary sergeant
and one hospital steward, and no principal musicians, in the non-commissioned staff and four
sergeants and eight corporals in each company.

He is also clear about what a cadet is... and he call new soldiers for "recruits"

And yes Kautz is a union officer... but his work is based on the US regulations. And since the CSA just copied the US regulations most of what he writes is just as correct for the CSA army. (one thing that is not, is how the army saw the idea of "veterans"...)



You might be correct, since this is an area where the two sides did handle things differently... but I would like to see a source on that...

In the north men who had served one enlistment (min. 9 month) and signed up again was called "Veteran Volunteer"
(before the war it was min. 5 years)

Also I do believe most CSA soldiers signed up for 1 year at the very start of the war. A bit later in 1861 it was 3 year enlistments.
And by early 1862 the CSA congress instituted the draft... and extended all 1 year enlistments to 3 years... so I do not think 2 year enlistments was the norm in the south... (and in the north 2 year enlistment was not an option until summer of 1864)




The rank of company quartermaster sergeant was not a command position, although he was required to know the drills and the duties and responsibilities of the line NCOs. He was the second most senior NCO in the company after the first sergeant. During combat, his place was safeguarding the company wagon and its supplies. He was generally required to fight only in defence of the company property. In an extreme emergency, he could be used to replace a fallen line NCO, but this was extremely rare. The wagons were driven by teamsters, who were usually members of the company. Also, each cavalry company was authorized a wagoneer with the rank of corporal.

The company quartermaster sergeant wore three chevrons with a single straight tie in worsted. Although worn by volunteer cavalry from 1862, This rank badge was not incorporated into United States military regulations until 1866. The rank and insignia were also used by the Confederate Army during the war. Likewise, a battery quartermaster sergeant was also authorised for every artillery battery. They began to adopt the same unofficial chevrons as the cavalry from May 1863.

[thomas aagaard]

Please supply a wartime source about the existence of company quartermaster sergeants in the infantry companies... north or south.


Kautz is very clear about who is in the infantry companies... and it got no company quartermaster sergeant.

[MacMillan]

Sergeants served either in the regimental color guard or in the individual companies of the regiment. There could be divisions, related to administrative duties, within the rank—for example, first sergeant, ordnance sergeant, and quartermaster sergeant. Battlefield commissioned sergeants advanced either in or behind the line of battle, depending on individual responsibilities. They helped guide troop movements and kept the men in their positions by example and force of command. ...... Each regiment had a contingent of staff officers, which included surgeons, quartermasters, adjutants, and, on occasion, chaplains. There were also special ranks for soldiers in specific parts of a regiment, such as the field music (fife and drums), the regimental band (brass instruments and drums), and the color guard. The color guard was an honorary group chosen to carry the flag, or colors, of the regiment. It usually consisted of eight color corporals and one color sergeant.

Cite: Frederick Phisterer's New York in the War of the Rebellion, 1861-1865. 3rd edition, 1912, volume 1, pages 72-77.
- The above author received his country's highest award for bravery during combat, the Medal of Honor. Phisterer's medal was won for actions at the Battle of Stones River at Murfreesboro, Tennessee, now marked by the Stones River National Battlefield. He was honored with the award on December 12, 1894.
http://www.townofelbridge.com/Organization%20and%20Rank.pdf







http://iagenweb.org/civilwar/images/bennett.bmp
Quartermaster Sergeant James D. Bennett - Co. C - 19th Iowa Infantry

http://40.media.tumblr.com/10a40aa6d6bce87bee3757ee4293f39d/tumblr_nzem236jze1to86o9o1_1280.jpg
Quartermaster Sergeant Grace Le Moore, 29th Regiment Connecticut Volunteers (USCT)





The first draft enacted by the Confederate government on April 16, 1862. My Battalion - the 1st Virginia Battalion was raised on April 4th, 1861. They would've renewed their conscription on April 4th, 1862. So it would be two years. Maybe not so for other regiments, battalions, military organizations, but for mine it was two then three.

[thomas aagaard]

Some random PDF is not a wartime source... It is a useless secondary source...
(useless since it don't use footnotes and give sources on the information in it)


The pictures only tell us that the men where Quartermaster Sergeants...
Still waiting for your wartime source... like their enlistment papers or something that prove that they where Company Quartermaster Sergeants... And not Battalion Quartermaster Sergeants...

And if you can actually prove that... then an explanation on why the law was broken in this way...


And please share the law, regulation or something that tell use that the infantry companies was to have had them......
(For the union look at Act March 3, 1863, sec. 37, it give us One 1st Sergeant and four sergeants... and no QM sergeant)





Enlistments
Ok, so for 12 days they where in fact on their 2. enlistment... and then it was changed to a 3 year conscription.

[Bravescot]

- Moved.

Interesting discussion. I'm going to be keeping a close eye on this as I want to see if this goes through.

[MacMillan]

"- March 6, 1861 - Regiments organized. Each regiment of infantry shall consist of one colonel, one lieutenant-colonel, one major, and ten companies; each company shall consist of one captain, one first lieutenant, two second lieutenants, one first sergeant, four sergeants, four corporals, two musicians, and ninety privates; and to each regiment there shall be attached one adjutant, to be selected from the lieutenants, and one sergeant-major, to be selected from the enlisted men of the regiment.
(Cite Page 28^^)

- May 4, 1861 - That there shall be added to the military establishment of the Confederate States one regiment of Zouaves, to be composed of one colonel, one lieutenant-colonel, one major, and ten companies; and each company shall consist of one captain, one first lieutenant, two second lieutenants, one sergeant-major, one quartermaster's sergeant, four sergeants and eight corporals, and ninety privates. And to the regiment there shall be attached one adjutant and a quartermaster, to be selected from the lieutenants.
(Cite Page 33^^)

- Aug. 22, 1861 - Company sergeants increased. That hereafter there shall be allowed one additional sergeant to each company in the service of the Confederate States, making, in all, five sergeants per company, who shall receive the same pay and allowances as are provided by existing laws for that grade."
(Cite Page 28^^)

Cite Link: http://docsouth.unc.edu/imls/digest/digest.html

Thus making 5 Sergeants in a Company after August 22nd, 1861 - for all Regiments not just Zouaves. <- And I just want to point out that even though it's not called "Company Quartermaster Sergeant" in the law and how it was written - it is most assuredly implied due to that "Each Company shall consist of... one quartermaster's sergeant." Per the Confederate Military and Naval laws put in place by the Confederate Congress. I have four sections, 2 platoons in my Company. Each section is led by a Sergeant, so the remaining Sergeant would have to be the Quartermaster Sergeant.

That's the University of North Carolina's records compiling all the Military laws and changes to those laws throughout the years of the war that took place in the Confederacy. Pretty awesome read... while I was researching for ya to find a more reputable source, I got carried away reading all the cool little tidbits that are sprawled throughout that document. :) Thank you for this highly educational debate thomas aagaard :) You gave me something to do tonight!!!! I'm off to bed

[thomas aagaard]

First of all thanks for the link. Finding the acts of congress or relevant regulations can be hard unless one know the correct date, so any form of compiling is fine, as long as it give us the source.
(it can be argued that Kautz is a secondary source are his books are also a compiling of laws and regulations... but it was written during the war, like this book is)

It is always a pleasure to debate with people who know how to find relevant sources... makes it much more likely that I learn something new.


As I read it.


March 6, 1863, §1, ch. 29. Military establishment.
4. That from and after the passage of this act the military establishment of the Confederate States shall be composed of one corps of engineers, one corps of artillery, six regiments of infantry, one regiment of cavalry, and of the staff departments already established by law.
This is the CSA regular army.


March 6, 1861, §3, ch. 29. Regiments organized.
64. Each regiment of infantry shall consist of one colonel, one lieutenant-colonel, one major, and ten companies; each company shall consist of one captain, one first lieutenant, two second lieutenants, four sergeants, four corporals, two musicians, and ninety privates; and to each regiment there shall be attached one adjutant, to be selected from the lieutenants, and one sergeant-major, to be selected from the enlisted men of the regiment.
My bold. So clearly no CQMS...




May 4, 1861 ch. 2. Regiment organized.

83. That there shall be added to the military establishment of the Confederate States one regiment of Zouaves[/B], to be composed of one colonel, one lieutenant-colonel, one major, and ten companies; and each company shall consist of one captain, one first lieutenant, two second lieutenants, one sergeant-major, one quartermaster's sergeant, four sergeants and eight corporals, and ninety privates. And to the regiment there shall be attached one adjutant and a quartermaster, to be selected from the lieutenants. And one assistant surgeon shall be appointed for the regiment, in addition to those already authorized by law for the medical department. The monthly pay of the officers of the regiment of Zouaves shall be the same as that of officers of infantry of the same rank; the allowances shall also be the same as those provided by law for officers of infantry; and the adjutant and quartermaster shall receive ten dollars per month in addition to their pay as lieutenants. The monthly pay of the enlisted men of said regiment of Zouaves shall be as follows: sergeant-major and quartermaster's sergeants, twenty dollars; sergeants, seventeen dollars; corporals, thirteen dollars, and privates, eleven dollars each; together with the same rations and allowance for clothing as are received by all other enlisted men.

That part is about adding one regiment of Zouaves to the CSA regular army... Something Iam pretty sure never happened.
CSA regular army never had more then a few high ranking officer as fare as I know...

Also as it is written each company should have a sergeant major? Not something I ever heard about. So this is very interesting.


This looks to me like some sort of "guard" or elite regiment... similar to what we see in European armies. But Iam just guessing.


May 16, 1861 §6, ch. 20. Quartermaster-sergeants and ordnance-sergeants.
60. That there be added to the military establishment one quartermaster-sergeant for each regiment of cavalry and infantry, and one ordnance-sergeant for each military post, each to receive the pay and allowances of a sergeant-major, according to existing laws [75].
We get the regimental quatermaster added.



Aug. 22, 1861 §5, ch. 34. Company sergeants increased.
65. That hereafter there shall be allowed one additional sergeant to each company in the service of the Confederate States, making, in all, five sergeants per company, who shall receive the same pay and allowances as are provided by existing laws for that grade [75].
Extra sergeant. Still no CQMS


April 21, 1862, ch. 73. Troops tendered by the governors of states.
87. That the President be and he is hereby authorized to accept the services of any companies, squadrons, battalions, or regiments which have been organized and are now in service under the authority of any of the states of the Confederacy, and which may be tendered by the governors of said states, with an organization conforming to the act of March sixth, A. D. eighteen hundred and sixty-one, "to provide for the public defence"
and

102. Except as herein differently provided, the volunteer forces hereby authorized to be raised shall, in all regards, be subject to and organized in accordance with the provisions of "An act to provide for the public defence" [92 et seq.], and all other acts for the government of the Armies of the Confederate States.

Clearly the regiments raised by the states had to conform to the structure defined by the CSA... in the act of march 6tth... and that is four sergeants (and later the 5th was added)



So to sum it up:
march 6th - clearly say four sergeants. And nothing about Quartermaster-sergeants... at battalion level or in the companies.
May 16th - add One Quartermaster-sergeant to each infantry regiment.
August 22nd - we get the extra sergeant... just like in the union volunteer regiments.

Using the search function I have read everything about "Quartermaster-sergeants" and the only mention of them in a infantry company is in the act about adding one regiment of Zouaves to the CSA Regular army.

Everything else tell us that there was one Quartermaster-sergeant in each regiment... just like in the US army...
So I will still stick to the opinion that each regiment of Infantry had one Quartermaster-sergeant...
(But I can't rule out exceptions... there usually are with this war)


But the part about the Zouaves is interesting none the less.

Another detail is that first sergeants are mentioned in regard to their pay... but not in the parts that deal with structure... that is just "four sergeants"
(where in the US acts it is clearly specified that each company should have one 1st sergeant)


Again thanks for spending the time to look into this...

[Challis89]

Not a bad idea however I'd stick to the historical ranks and not add any you could get away with veteran Private not a rank but in all outfits the more experienced guys would be considered veterans. I could go on but Tommys covered it even if it's pretty excessively long winded haha

Not sure where you get pickets from however plenty of mention of platoons and squads and sections but not seen pickets.

From memory I forget which drill manual it's from but:

1 COY = 2 platoons commanded by a captain
1 Platoon = 2 sections commanded by a lt
1 section = 2 squads commanded by a Sgt
Squad commanded by a cpl

However these are subject to change due to casualties

Nice to see this kind of suggestion tho and will be nice to standardise these things too many made up ranks to make people feel important haha

[Duke Of Longtree]

Keeping it 100% historical would be the best way to have fun

[MacMillan]

May 4, 1861 ch. 2. Regiment organized.

83. That there shall be added to the military establishment of the Confederate States one regiment of Zouaves[/B], to be composed of one colonel, one lieutenant-colonel, one major, and ten companies; and each company shall consist of one captain, one first lieutenant, two second lieutenants, one sergeant-major, one quartermaster's sergeant, four sergeants and eight corporals, and ninety privates. And to the regiment there shall be attached one adjutant and a quartermaster, to be selected from the lieutenants. And one assistant surgeon shall be appointed for the regiment, in addition to those already authorized by law for the medical department. The monthly pay of the officers of the regiment of Zouaves shall be the same as that of officers of infantry of the same rank; the allowances shall also be the same as those provided by law for officers of infantry; and the adjutant and quartermaster shall receive ten dollars per month in addition to their pay as lieutenants. The monthly pay of the enlisted men of said regiment of Zouaves shall be as follows: sergeant-major and quartermaster's sergeants, twenty dollars; sergeants, seventeen dollars; corporals, thirteen dollars, and privates, eleven dollars each; together with the same rations and allowance for clothing as are received by all other enlisted men.

1st bold: Refers to Company and that each company will have a Quartermaster Sergeant - thus a Co. Q/M Sgt. Then the 2nd bold: refers to the regimental quartermaster which would've been the Regimental/Battalion Q/M Sgt. or could've been run by a Lieutenant.


Still waiting for your wartime source... like their enlistment papers or something that prove that they where Company Quartermaster Sergeants... And not Battalion Quartermaster Sergeants...

And if you can actually prove that... then an explanation on why the law was broken in this way...

There were indeed Quartermaster Sergeants used on a Co. level in the infantry in the Civil War on the Confederate side. I feel that was what this debate was primarily about - at least for me :D -weather the rank existed in the military structure of Co.'s I feel as though the Dev's should make it up to the leaders of the Co.'s if they would like to add Quartermaster roles and their ranks weather it be at the Company, Battalion, or Regimental level



Not a bad idea however I'd stick to the historical ranks and not add any you could get away with veteran Private not a rank but in all outfits the more experienced guys would be considered veterans. I could go on but Tommys covered it even if it's pretty excessively long winded haha

Not sure where you get pickets from however plenty of mention of platoons and squads and sections but not seen pickets.

From memory I forget which drill manual it's from but:

1 COY = 2 platoons commanded by a captain
1 Platoon = 2 sections commanded by a lt
1 section = 2 squads commanded by a Sgt
Squad commanded by a cpl

However these are subject to change due to casualties

Nice to see this kind of suggestion tho and will be nice to standardise these things too many made up ranks to make people feel important haha

Pickets were an old system put in place by my Battalion to utilize the fact that we were small and needed more squad like numbers for our Sgt's and Cpl's instead of a Section or Platoon. Pickets were night time guard detail or anti-theft detail (guarding supplies and such) and would usually consist of part of a section, which is part of a platoon, which is part of a company. Since the section would be split - I figured it was better to call them what they would've been called then "Squads". This is a direct copy paste of my rank structure on the 1st Virginia's thread posting. We just recently moved to Company structure out of Platoon structure and are no longed utilizing my essentially made up Pickets (at least with how they are utilized - they were just a guard duty grouping of soldiers not an actual military grouping for battle. Instead we use sections, platoons and companies now since we have the men :) good question and attention to detail Challis!

P.S. If you check out my thread "1st Virginia Infantry Battalion" under ranks, it has been updated - hope that clears the air.

[Challis89]

Ah I see makes sense now :-) I knew pickets were temporary bodies but wanted to make sure I hadn't missed something :-) I never noticed it on your thread I'd seen you had made an effort and gave a good rating as I feel those that make an effort deserve recognition. I'll take a wee look at it later :-) myself I'm dithering wither to add another squad to each Platoon or just make a new company as we grow :-?

Since we are on the topic of ranks was the first Sgt assigned into a section or like the captain stayed free in the formation.

[thomas aagaard]

1st bold: Refers to Company and that each company will have a Quartermaster Sergeant

No. Read the entire paragraph.

That there shall be added to the military establishment of the Confederate States one regiment of Zouaves
This act is about that specific regiment of Zouaves that they planned to add to the Regular CSA army. Something that never happened.
It also clearly say that each company should have a sergeant-major... something I do hope we can agree is something that the ordinary infantry companies did not have?

So this do not tell us anything about the ordinary infantry regiments...

The french Zouaves was elite light infantry so I think they was to be used as light infantry where each company was attached to different units when on campaign... just like we see with the 1st and 2nd USSS... (and other rifle or light infantry units in many European armies in the late 18th and early 19th century)

And if this is the case it makes sense to have Quartermaster Sergeants and a more senior sergeant-major in each company... since they would be operating away from their own battalion structure. (just like artillery and cavalry companies often did)


The ordinary regiments is covered by the the act from march 6th

March 6, 1861, §3, ch. 29. Regiments organized.
64. Each regiment of infantry shall consist of one colonel, one lieutenant-colonel, one major, and ten companies; each company shall consist of one captain, one first lieutenant, two second lieutenants, four sergeants, four corporals, two musicians, and ninety privates; and to each regiment there shall be attached one adjutant, to be selected from the lieutenants, and one sergeant-major, to be selected from the enlisted men of the regiment.
Four sergeants. and later a 5th is added... matching the way the volunteer regiments in the Union was organised.

A number of places (I quoted two of them) mention that other troops supplied from the states or other sources have to follow the structure set out on march 6th. (and the later changes)


So the relevant acts are still:
The one from March 6. (no Quartermaster Sergeants at all, and four sergeants in each company)
May 16 that add one Quartermaster Sergeant to each regiment of infantry and cavalry.
August 22nd - we get the extra sergeant... just like in the union volunteer regiments.







Challis89
The 1st sergeant was the covering sergeant for the captain. And when the company was standing in line he stepped back to the line of file closers.
(read the first few pages of Hardee's revised for information on where the different ranks was posted - http://www.zipcon.net/~silas/Drill/sob.htm)

[Challis89]

I have and know that however what I can't find is where he is listed in the company books is he independent like the captain or added to one of the platoons? Sorry if it sounds like I'm being aggressive I'm knackered.

[thomas aagaard]

He is part of the company like everyone else.
The company is the administrative unit.

Platoons and sections is something you define each and every time you fall in... Since the first platoon must be of an even number of files and the rank and file fall in by height.
So if you are the tallest man, then you would always be in the first platoon. but if you got a height that is average for the company you might be in the 2nd platoon before noon and when one soldier from the first platoon had to do something else then you will be change platoon when you fall in after a break.

And as such not something you would registre anywhere.

The drill books even tell use that men was to be moved from one company to another when the regiment fall in... to make sure the companies are at an even size.
So just a practical change when in formation... but not an administrative one.
(not sure if this was actually done)

[Challis89]

OK cheers makes sense was thinking more the admin side than the drill ground but I suppose if they move them about often it makes sense. however do remember that the drill book would be a guide and not Gospel amd I have read the falling in stuff before. While I appreciate you have a good knowledge please don't always preach when a simple explanation is sometimes better.

[thomas aagaard]

While I appreciate you have a good knowledge please don't always preach when a simple explanation is sometimes better.

I didn't mean to preach, some here have a lot of knowledge and others don't... not always clear at what detail level a person want a reply.

[Bravescot]

What might help is if both parties linked or footnoted where they're getting their quotes from to allow other people access to this pool of knowledge.

[Challis89]

I didn't mean to preach, some here have a lot of knowledge and others don't... not always clear at what detail level a person want a reply.

Fair enough I should have been clearer. Just needed that small thing cleared up as in my company structure I couldn't find the right place for the first Sgt but I'll keep it as part of the company hq section. Strangely for a more advanced war finding plenty solid materials to cross check with is harder for the acw than the napoleonic wars.