Keeping in the ranks.

[Rithal]

Before I start, I would like to acknowledge that the devs might already have plans for the situations I will be talking about, and what I'm about to say might just be completely pointless and redundant. Ok, here we go.

I've noticed that lots of people, including myself, are curious as to how the average player with no regiment/clan experience is going to keep in the ranks and take orders. If you were someone who bought this game because you were just looking for something new to play and don't know a whole lot about history, or the Civil War in general, then you might not take the whole "staying in formation" or the "following orders" thing to well. Don't get me wrong, I'm super hyped about the idea of obeying your commanding officer and such, but there will always be those couple of people that wanna just do there own thing, and lone wolf it. I believe it has been stated somewhere that it will be extremely hard to survive without your unit, but if that is so, then after getting killed a few times, the person might just quit the game all together. Also, how will the choosing of officers be made? I don't know how well it would work if you have a captain who has no idea what he is doing and just kind of gets the entire unit killed.

I have come up with a few solutions for these problems. First, about the issue where new players just go off on there own. It might be possible for these people to be deemed deserters and traitors once they get too far from their unit, and can be killed on sight by their own team or possibly be caught and taken to the rear of the lines and turned into the major (not sure what rank would have handled situations like these) and be dealt with, such as with an execution, where they would be shot and quickly re-spawned back with their regiment.

Secondly, concerning the officer selection. I'm not sure if this is even possible with the engine ( I'm not familiar with the inner workings of engines or coding or anything like that ) but some sort of officer tutorial of some sort might be a good way to acquaint players with orders, and how to issue commands. ( Also, will commands be given through V.O.I.P or through some sort of in game overlay or shouting mechanism? ) Maybe some kind of in-game test could be given and then they are given a score. It could be one test for each rank/position besides your average private. For example, if you wanted to be a drummer, you could take a drummer tutorial or test. This would make sure that you have an idea of what drum sequences to play depending on what the officer commands. I'm not sure if this game is going to get that i depth but this is just an example. At the end of said tutorial or test, you would be given a score. X% = Passing X%=Failing. I just came up with this on the spot so there is probably some kind of flaw, but I'm sure everyone gets the idea. The same would go for any other rank, such as captain, major, lieutenant colonel and so on. Additionally, can you give us an idea on the ranks that will be included in the game? Will there be every rank that there was historically, or will some be cut out to keep things simple?

I know that I asked lots of questions, and many of which you probably don't want to reveal quite yet. Whatever happens, I'm sure you guys are cooking something nice up for us. :D

[TrustyJam]

Thank you for the ideas.

We have been thinking about tutorials for officers and still are. In terms of getting players to stay in formation, we won't be as strict in terms of gameplay mechanics making sure they do indeed stay. Be prepared to be shot alot by friendlies and by foes if you indeed go lone wolf though. Keeping to specific play styles is more of an server admin question to me really. If you want, you can set up a brutal authentic role playing server and monitor it as such, making sure the players acts as expected.

You shouldn't pounce at every lone soldier in the field though. There were sharpshooters operating alone or in pairs, wounded on their way back from the front as well as stragglers back then too. Our levels are huge - it is possible to simply get lost in them.

- Trusty

[William]

Awsome :DD

[Rithal]

Sounds great

[Soulfly]

as i have have mentioned earlier i have played battlegrounds 2 a lot, American Revolution, in this game movement and coordination of troops where done by officers who were members of clans and had a lot of experience due to a lot of line battles and clan-trainings. I am sure this will also happen in this game, though a "officer tutorial" is a nice idea it is hard to simulate leading a platoon/ company in battle.

Battlegrounds 2 was only able to show 32 vs 32 battles, so leading 32 men is a really hard think to do and is only possible when there are NCO's to support the leading officer. Now think about leading a larger group of men, you dont know and which are inexperienced , into battle alone....how can a tutorial help here or a test just like in Americas Army ?

IMHO the key to successful and enjoyable gameplay/ battles will be a living and supportive clan-community


Best,


Soulfly

[Rithal]

I have also been in a clan environment for Napoleonic Wars for about the past year and a half, so I know what you are saying. The problem is, the devs can't expect everyone to join a clan/regiment. It's just not right. They also can't tell people that they can't lead unless they are an officer in their clan. Ir doesn't make sense and would be impossible to enforce. So, the purpose of the tutorials would be to show new players the basics of commanding men, and good tactics and skills that can be utilized to flank, or maneuver around an enemy company. The devs have stated many times that they want this to be as realistic as possible. That can't happen if random people become officers and try to command men when they have no idea what they are doing or how any chain of command works. It's important to inform everyone of whats going on before they are given command.

The difference between a regiment environment and a public environment, is that in a regiment you are in a teamspeak, and one person controls everyone else. How can you pick the person to control a group in a public setting? Either, you make it required to pass a set of standards before someone could lead, or you just don't let anyone lead and it is a free for all. The devs have already said it will be realistic when referring to the chain of command, so option B isn't possible. Some kind of test would be the only way to make it fair to everyone.

I'm not saying a clan community would be a bad thing, and it's actually what I'm looking forward too the most, but I feel this game will work much like Napoleonic Wars. There will be public servers where anyone can join in. These are the servers I'm talking about where people who have no idea what they are doing try to take command of a company or worse, a battalion or regiment. And also there is the issue of everyone trying to become an officer. The only thing that could happen, is there are limited officer positions. Only the qualified people could fill these positions. AKA people who had completed the tutorial/explanation for that rank. Say someone takes control of the entire team just because they loaded in before everyone else. These people could have no idea what theya re doing, and lead the team into a slaughter and will kill everyone's fun. If you have someone get the position first,and they have taken the tutorial, and has some idea of what to do and how to issue orders, then it will help everyone have a better time and a more realistic game, which is the goal for this entire project.

[PvtPalmer11pvi]

No Idea what they are doing and get everyone else slaughtered??? Hmmm boy that sounds familiar..I'm sure I read that in a history book or two. *Cough* Burnside *Cough* (Speaking of man how cool would an authentic Battle of Fredricksburg be?) But I totally agree with you maybe some kind of ranking type system? (Im sure that has been discussed before in another thread) Or a tutorial you have to pass to play as an officer would be a great idea. Im sure like Napoleonic Wars there will be public run around like a mad man servers and servers for realistic type battles.

[Rithal]

I suppose that's true. Maybe people will come to their senses and try to not play public servers like Call of Duty (sorry to mention that game on this forum :o ) Although judging from the size of the maps, that might be impossible.

[[RG]Chewie]

The general idea for being in close ranks was for a large number of reasons,here are just a few:
-The ability for an officers orders to be clearly heard.
-Effectiveness / concentration of fire.
-Morale.
I think that you can use the morale as a factor that will keep soldiers in rank or close to it. If a soldier wanders away from the ranks his morale goes down and his vision begins to blur and his hands start to shake. That is except for specialty units like sharpshooters. This may also precipitate a hasty retreat if your ranks get to thin forcing you to fallback and redress the ranks.

[Soulfly]

Well i dont like the idea to "punish" soldiers when they dont stay in the ranks, since sometimes this is necessary (scouting, bayonet charge and so on) as i have mentioned before i think it will be up to the officers/ NCOs to keep the ranks and discipline, even on public servers ;) that has worked in other games and i am pretty sure it will work here too.

[Rithal]

I believe we ahve come to the conclusion that some sort of de-buff would be necessary if an average soldier strayed too far from his regiment. This of course wouldn't mean during a bayonet charge, or whilst scouting (mostly because scouting was done by cavalry groups and skirmishers, ect.) I agree that it should be up to the ncos and officers partly, but what if the ncos and officers dont know what they are doing? This is where the officer tutorials can come in handy to make sure that the guy who goes nco actually knows that its his job to keep the ranks organized :)

[lowflyingsasquatch]

Sorry if this is unrelated or has already been covered. Has some system of 'locking on' or 'matching speed' while marching been considered? I admit I am not a clan player but play napoleonuc war often and always wondered how a new player would be able to stay in formation without hours of practice. A coordinated march to the area to be attacked or defended would add to immersion and give players a sense of 'unit'. Then in the officers word they would be unleashed to attack or defend the nearby area.

Just a thought from a new guy here.

[Josy_Wales]

I understand your way of thinking, but I think it would stay interesting for a longer period if you have to practice with your regiment to master the formations and not having the game do everything for you. If every regiment moves in perfect formation from the start, the game would lose the skill of having a well drilled, coordinated regiment.

I am sure this is one of the things that will make a major difference on the battlefield, and be the biggest difference between a well-trained regiment and a new one. If you want a game to last for a long period you need a steep learning curve with different play styles and many things to master (example: CS).

[NiceWalnut]

I know I should make a new topic about this, but what about adding sharpshooters. I don't think that they should have to stay in ranks. And you could limit the amount per battle.

[Historical Player]

I think there should be sharpshooters watching for deserters.

[Bravescot]

I think there should be sharpshooters watching for deserters.

Order No. 227

[Rithal]

Order No. 227

"Not one step backwards!" XD Dumb commies.

[Simon445]

Thank you for the ideas.

We have been thinking about tutorials for officers and still are. In terms of getting players to stay in formation, we won't be as strict in terms of gameplay mechanics making sure they do indeed stay. Be prepared to be shot alot by friendlies and by foes if you indeed go lone wolf though. Keeping to specific play styles is more of an server admin question to me really. If you want, you can set up a brutal authentic role playing server and monitor it as such, making sure the players acts as expected.

You shouldn't pounce at every lone soldier in the field though. There were sharpshooters operating alone or in pairs, wounded on their way back from the front as well as stragglers back then too. Our levels are huge - it is possible to simply get lost in them.

- Trusty

Poor sharpshooters, alone in the battlefield ;(

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