Flags Serving a Purpose.

[michaelsmithern]

While we all know flags are cool to look at... sometimes, what value do they actually serve in a game like this... nothing. what i would like to propose is that a regimental flag boost stats of the men in the same unit as you as long as you are within a certain radius or something like that, sorta like in Mount and Blade Warband: Napoleonic Wars. I would just like to see flags( and some variety with all the different units and what not) serve an actual purpose other than looking nice. I don't know if you think the same try and expand on the idea.

[Rithal]

While we all know flags are cool to look at... sometimes, what value do they actually serve in a game like this... nothing. what i would like to propose is that a regimental flag boost stats of the men in the same unit as you as long as you are within a certain radius or something like that, sorta like in Mount and Blade Warband: Napoleonic Wars. I would just like to see flags( and some variety with all the different units and what not) serve an actual purpose other than looking nice. I don't know if you think the same try and expand on the idea.

This has been discussed before, and many ideas have been thrown around. We as a community have discussed buffs given by flags, as well as flags acting as a possible respawn point.

[michaelsmithern]

i wouldn't mind if flags could be used as a weapon, since the Pennant(or the sharp pointy end) could be used to stab people and it was.

[Rithal]

i wouldn't mind if flags could be used as a weapon, since the Pennant(or the sharp pointy end) could be used to stab people and it was.

Possibly. Usually flag bearers didn't really "fight" per say. They were either captured or were running the other way, or died defending the flag of course. It was rare (from what I know) for prolonged melee engagements to occur, so within the first moments of a fight erupting, a flag is either captured or a retreat has already been called by one side. I suspect that many color guards were armed with some sort of weapon such as a sword or simply a bayonet. Others, especially those who picked up the flag from their fallen comrades were unarmed. These men might simply just surrender, run, or attempt to use the flag as some sort of weapon. This may be difficult however, because not all flags were pointed at the top. Many U.S flags had eagles, and it can be assumed that many Confederate flags had no fixing at the top. Anyone else have helpful thoughts on this?

[Bravescot]

It was only really know on the battlefields of Europe for there to be the odd story of one soldier killing the other using the regimental colours, but it was incredibly rare for example the loss of the King's or Queen's Colours in the UK could mean the loss of a full Battalion in dishonor! No colour guard could risk such a thing so many hopped it during melee or hung back.

[BloodBeag]

My favourite story of a flag bearer was on the British retreat from Kabul. About 10ish men made a final stand against there pursuers and were overwhelmed.

To stop the Afghans from taking the flag, the flag bearer wrapped it around his body and threw himself down hoping that they wouldn't see him. The Afghans saw him and instead of killing him along with the other prisoners, they took him to ransom as they thought that he was a wealthy noble due to the fine waist coat he was wearing.

[Rithal]

My favourite story of a flag bearer was on the British retreat from Kabul. About 10ish men made a final stand against there pursuers and were overwhelmed.

To stop the Afghans from taking the flag, the flag bearer wrapped it around his body and threw himself down hoping that they wouldn't see him. The Afghans saw him and instead of killing him along with the other prisoners, they took him to ransom as they thought that he was a wealthy noble due to the fine waist coat he was wearing.

XD I got a kick out of that!

[Bravescot]

Only the British would be that nuts to try and keep a hold of their colours :cool:

[Soulfly]

Not really, a yankee unit at the battle of gettysburg once ripped their flag apart and hid it under their clothes to prevent if from being captured...battle honor

[Bravescot]

Not really, a yankee unit at the battle of gettysburg once ripped their flag apart

They ripped it apart.....if any Brit did that to save their colours they'd be shot on the spot.

[BloodBeag]

Well, dying flag bearers would wrap throw themselves ontop of their flags and hope they would be covered by their press of dead bodies.

[GeorgeCrecy]

There is another story as well from the Civil War of the fervor made to keep a-hold of the flag. A younger member of a Confederate regiment cut the middle field of his regimental flag and hid it inside the lining of his coat before being captured. He served time at a Union POW camp before being traded back in a prisoner exchange. He was able to return to his regiment and give back the flag.

[Rithal]

There is another story as well from the Civil War of the fervor made to keep a-hold of the flag. A younger member of a Confederate regiment cut the middle field of his regimental flag and hid it inside the lining of his coat before being captured. He served time at a Union POW camp before being traded back in a prisoner exchange. He was able to return to his regiment and give back the flag.

I always love experiencing the might of your Civil War database George :) Can you tell us of any developments on the use of flags in game?

[GeorgeCrecy]

Hehe, always fishing for development news, aren't you Rithal? ;) But, I am happy to say that I can answer you this time.

There will be flags in game.

[Soulfly]

He served time at a Union POW camp before being traded back in a prisoner exchange. He was able to return to his regiment and give back the flag.

Hi George,

I have question following this. Was this common ? I remember that i have read that POWs were released with a word of honor not going to participate in the fighting once more. Unfortunately i dont know much about this thematic.

[GeorgeCrecy]

I certainly can answer that question. Prisoner exchanges were very common. At first they were informal exchanges that were underhandedly recognized on the Federal side as the Union government didn't want to acknowledge any sort of legitimacy to the Confederate government. However, it became increasingly evident to both sides that prisoner exchanges were a very good idea. It got to the point that both sides set up specific quartermaster officers, known as "agents," that would be empowered to take care of the handling and exchanging of prisoners.
However, there were many cases in the war where things got to be a little rocky when it came to prisoner exchanges. For instance, around the time when General Butler (USA) occupied New Orleans, a man was hanged for taking down the Union flag. President Davis soon made a general order that called Butler and his men murderers and thieves that were unsuited to the usual rules of war, and more suited to immediate execution. A similar thing happened when General Pope (USA) was in Virginia early in the war and had imprisoned several citizens. Also, a general declaration was also sent out by the Confederate Government when African American soldiers began to be enrolled in the north, which very frankly stated that any black soldier captured or any officer found to be in command of a black regiment would be immediately executed.
With all these things being banded about, prisoner exchanges of an official nature stopped, though special cases were allowed in some places, while informal exchanges of even thousands of men in the west happened as well.
Additionally, yes, their orders did forbid them on both sides from returning to active duty. With this, the prisoners were sent to various camps, where in the north there are various cases of the officers abandoning the men and the men becoming slack and unrepentant in doing any duty, claiming it would go against their parole. It was suggested to Sec. of War Stanton that the men be sent to fight the Indians in the west, but all the men that were cajoled to enlist in regiments to do so almost immediately all deserted. At the various camps, mass desertion happened. So, in 1863, Stanton ordered that no parole orders preventing future service would be followed, and that exchanged soldiers would return back to full duty immediately.

Rather long, but hopefully answered your question.

[Rithal]

Hehe, always fishing for development news, aren't you Rithal? ;) But, I am happy to say that I can answer you this time.

There will be flags in game.

XD I'm just trying to keep the conversation moving forward, and yes, I like everyone else am very interested in what this game will offer the Civil War community :D

[Soulfly]

Well thank you very much George for your response, it actually brought some light into it.

[Rokulda]

About that respawn thing, I personally think it would be a bit cheap letting anyone spawn anywhere the flag is. Maybe have compounds on the map that you would have to take and plant the flag on the designated flagholder inside the compound. That way taking the compound would serve more purpose than just holding a house, it would provide a spawnpoint.

[Bravescot]

I actually quite like that idea. You get fresh reinforcements according to the taking of strategic points

[Historical Player]

Hehe, always fishing for development news, aren't you Rithal? ;) But, I am happy to say that I can answer you this time.

There will be flags in game.

WOW Really? I didn't think they would be in a historically accurate Civil War game! =D jk jk. I shall have a Flag Bearer and a Medic and Drummer in my Lines. Watch out Yanks!

[Josy_Wales]

I like that, but I think people should be able to respawn out of those areas as well to make the gunfights longer and charges and pushes possible if timed right by the officer.

[88thNY_InFaMY]

I would be fine with just a buff from the flags :P

[rebeldestroyer]

Or you could go all Mel Gibson and kill 20 people using the flag

[Bravescot]

Or you could go all Mel Gibson and kill 20 people using the flag

Or not because that would be pointless

[LTC Philip A. Work]

Respawn point would be a great idea for the flag, plus if the flag were dropped and not picked up or captured by the enemy mobile respawn would cease for that unit until they could respawn.

[Bravescot]

Respawn point would be a great idea for the flag, plus if the flag were dropped and not picked up or captured by the enemy mobile respawn would cease for that unit until they could respawn.

I recon the General and his staff's HQ should be the respawn point. As he moves about the battlefield and sets up a forward HQ it moves the spawn from point to point meaning the General could make a risk and come closer to the battle to try and have a closer spawn point at risk to his life

[Rithal]

I recon the General and his staff's HQ should be the respawn point. As he moves about the battlefield and sets up a forward HQ it moves the spawn from point to point meaning the General could make a risk and come closer to the battle to try and have a closer spawn point at risk to his life

Nah. I feel like the HQ would be way too far from the fighting. I mean, historically they were usually several miles behind the front line I believe. Imagine walking that just to get back to the fight only to get shot again XD

[Hinkel]

Nah. I feel like the HQ would be way too far from the fighting. I mean, historically they were usually several miles behind the front line I believe. Imagine walking that just to get back to the fight only to get shot again XD

Several miles? Please explain me, why so many division and even corps commanders died in the war :p
Longstreet had his head quarter about 500 metres from the front line, at Antietam.
Jackson was nearly killed by a round shot, which hit the ground next to him.

Major General Mansfield and Richardson were both mortally wounded, cause they were that close to the fighting lines at Antietam.

"You can't lead from behind" ;)

[Rithal]

Several miles? Please explain me, why so many division and even corps commanders died in the war :p
Longstreet had his head quarter about 500 metres from the front line, at Antietam.
Jackson was nearly killed by a round shot, which hit the ground next to him.

Major General Mansfield and Richardson were both mortally wounded, cause they were that close to the fighting lines at Antietam.

"You can't lead from behind" ;)

I mean like, full general's HQ's. Not like, division, corps, ect. McClellan was probably a little father than 500 meters from the fighting. While Mansfield and Richardson indeed were both mortally wounded, neither of them were in there "HQ" when the event took place. In Mansfield's situation he was extremely too close to the front line for anyone's comfort and definitely did not need to be there XD

It is all situational though. While some officers were noted to have lead from the front, others probably stayed back and "chilled" while their men were gunned down. XD

[Bravescot]

So now you see why I made the suggestion! Generals did get very close to the combat

[Soulfly]

So now you see why I made the suggestion! Generals did get very close to the combat

The only problem that i have with your suggestion is, that i as a general want to have my reserves/ regiments on strategic positions and not within my tent/ HQ...therefore i am with respawning on regimental flags

[Rithal]

The only problem that i have with your suggestion is, that i as a general want to have my reserves/ regiments on strategic positions and not within my tent/ HQ...therefore i am with respawning on regimental flags

This as well ^^^^^ XD At most, I would like units to respawn as "reserves" coming up from the rear, but not directly from the field HQ.

[Historical Player]

This as well ^^^^^ XD At most, I would like units to respawn as "reserves" coming up from the rear, but not directly from the field HQ.

Yea, I can see this. I would like to see reserves, but they could come from different locations.