Reload times.

[Bravescot]

Now I was thinking hard on something someone told me about the reload time of pistols and revolvers of the time. It could take up to ten minutes to fully reload them. Obviously this game strives for historical accuracy like the 3 rounds a minute from the rifles, but nobody wants to sit about for ten minutes waiting for their revolver to reload. On the flip side nobody want officers dashing about with their six shooters reloading like it was nothing and getting some silly 12 rounds a minute off.

So what I was thinking is keep the idea of the reload time in mind but cut it down to something reasonable. Maybe make it 3-4 minutes as that would still be a fair bit of time for officers to reload and the average soldier could get off 9 to 12 rounds in that space of time. It would make officers think hard about their shots as if they fire off all six in seconds then they're toast if things get hairy as they can't keep themselves fully covered in a melee. By cutting down the reload but still keeping it relevantly long you keep some accuracy but make it so that pistols are still enjoyable to use. Maybe limit the ammo to help compensate for the cut back in time or increase the pistol say when firing.

Hope this idea is considered. Scotty.

[TrustyJam]

Now I was thinking hard on something someone told me about the reload time of pistols and revolvers of the time. It could take up to ten minutes to fully reload them. Obviously this game strives for historical accuracy like the 3 rounds a minute from the rifles, but nobody wants to sit about for ten minutes waiting for their revolver to reload. On the flip side nobody want officers dashing about with their six shooters reloading like it was nothing and getting some silly 12 rounds a minute off.

So what I was thinking is keep the idea of the reload time in mind but cut it down to something reasonable. Maybe make it 3-4 minutes as that would still be a fair bit of time for officers to reload and the average soldier could get off 9 to 12 rounds in that space of time. It would make officers think hard about their shots as if they fire off all six in seconds then they're toast if things get hairy as they can't keep themselves fully covered in a melee. By cutting down the reload but still keeping it relevantly long you keep some accuracy but make it so that pistols are still enjoyable to use. Maybe limit the ammo to help compensate for the cut back in time or increase the pistol say when firing.

Hope this idea is considered. Scotty.

You won't be able to reload your revolver at all (at least not the ones currently done and ingame). It's simply too complex a thing to pull off in the middle of a battle. Pistol wielding soldiers (Officers and some NCO's) were mainly there to command the soldiers carrying the most deadly weapon of the war, the rifles (about 90% of all battlefield casualties) anyways.

As an officer, you have the revolver for that final charge/stand and that's about it. Rambo pistoleros will have a hard time. :)

- Trusty

[Caserta34]

So we only have 5 or 6 shots with the revolver

[Soulfly]

You won't be able to reload your revolver at all (at least not the ones currently done and ingame). It's simply too complex a thing to pull off in the middle of a battle. Pistol wielding soldiers (Officers and some NCO's) were mainly there to command the soldiers carrying the most deadly weapon of the war, the rifles (about 90% of all battlefield casualties) anyways.

As an officer, you have the revolver for that final charge/stand and that's about it. Rambo pistoleros will have a hard time. :)

- Trusty

I like this idea very much, because of the reasons you have mentioned and because it will keep people away from this role who will play it just because of the weapons. My complements for your eye for details :)

[Bravescot]

Fair enough, thanks for the reply. When sharpshooters are implemented into the game will their officer carry the Sharps Rifle or Pistols?

[Hinkel]

Fair enough, thanks for the reply. When sharpshooters are implemented into the game will their officer carry the Sharps Rifle or Pistols?

Officers were equipped with Revolvers.. ;)

[Caserta34]

Can the officers pick up riflea from dead soldiers

[Caserta34]

Rifles I meant

[Bravescot]

Officers were equipped with Revolvers.. ;)

We talked about it if anyone is wandering and found that Lieutenants both Second and First used Sharps and the Captains sometimes used one or the other. Major upwards had Revolvers.

[Soulfly]

Can the officers pick up riflea from dead soldiers

As far as i remember it will be possible to pick up weapons, but i guess an officer should be busy leading his men instead of collecting guns

[William]

As far as i remember it will be possible to pick up weapons, but i guess an officer should be busy leading his men instead of collecting guns


True but... if i had a fight i won and Reform my unit and have no gun anymore i will try to get myself some bulltes aswell and a rifel before i have nothing then my saber xD
but as i said ist true normaly the main aim is to lead Men :)

[Caserta34]

Ok thanks for the reply

[[RG]Chewie]

You won't be able to reload your revolver at all (at least not the ones currently done and ingame). It's simply too complex a thing to pull off in the middle of a battle. Pistol wielding soldiers (Officers and some NCO's) were mainly there to command the soldiers carrying the most deadly weapon of the war, the rifles (about 90% of all battlefield casualties) anyways.

As an officer, you have the revolver for that final charge/stand and that's about it. Rambo pistoleros will have a hard time. :)



- Trusty
What about the 1858 remington, thats a very easy revolver to reload a preloaded cylinder, their is even spare cylinder pouches..

[GeorgeCrecy]

Indeed there were. ;)

[[RG]Chewie]

Oh no the grammer police !

[GeorgeCrecy]

Actually, I was just saying that there were cylinder boxes available to soldiers during the Civil War, but there was that too.
EDIT: And I much more prefer the term grammar Nazi, since I did Nazi that coming.

[Rithal]

Now that I think of it, you really should be able to reload your pistols. Think about the long historical battles that take hours. You can't tell me officers didn't reload at least once during the battle of Antietam :D

[Bravescot]

And I much more prefer the term grammar Nazi, since I did Nazi that coming.
Oh come now you're Goering the right way for a beating.

[Historical Player]

True but... if i had a fight i won and Reform my unit and have no gun anymore i will try to get myself some bulltes aswell and a rifel before i have nothing then my saber xD
but as i said ist true normaly the main aim is to lead Men :)

Commanders use Swords and Pistols unless otherwise necessary.

[Pinckney]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-2HUcfAyaaQ

Something like those may be an option, but having them limited would be a good idea.

[GeorgeCrecy]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-2HUcfAyaaQ

Something like those may be an option, but having them limited would be a good idea.

Those that are shown there Pinckney are certainly almost exactly like what they would have had at the time, though with a few changes to the material! :)
However, it is still not good for trying to load in the battlefield, and it would still take too long and lead to chain fires if you didn't also bring along the bore butter to put on top, which during the period was oftentimes pig fat.

[Nick Lazanis]

Officers were equipped with Revolvers.. ;)

And partisan rangers? :p

[GeorgeCrecy]

Welcome to the forums Lazanis!
Yes, partisan rangers would have it, as well as other cavalrymen, some artillerymen, officers, and sergeants of all branches who wished to carry it.

[Mr.Tolbs]

Very good point! The revolvers of the time did take a rather long reload which will turn many players off about playing officer. However this is the beauty of this being a game so I'm confident they will find a great balance for this. Also, we don't really know much about weapon specifics yet so it all is still in the open.

[MadWolf]

I am glad to hear that you will not be able to reload your revolver. I do not want to deal with Pistoleros in WoR.

[Henronicus]

I still don't see why you can't reload just because it takes too long. What if during a lull in the fighting while your men were recovering stamina and scavenging for ammo? I also saw in another post the brilliant Idea to reload one chamber at a time, for example if you shot 4 shots and you got a little bit of time later one, you could reload like 2 shots before moving on.

[elder_gutknecht]

I take this thread to make a question
Is it posible to reload your rifle while you are kneel down?
You know, two files shooting at the same time

[thomas aagaard]

First of all. Files are counted from right to left... So what you mean is properly the two RANKS.

The drill books are clear that both ranks shoot standing. The rear rank man shooting true the right interval. (most of the time.*)
So the devs need to find some way for this to be practical in the game.

Having the first rank kneel make no sense since its lower their rate of fire without making the "target" the unit makes smaller.
So there is no proper way to do this in the drill book, with the exception of what is described in the regard to how to form square.

So it is both ranks standing or both ranks kneeling...





* Exactly how "left oblique" is done can be debated, but is sort of offtopic)

[Challis89]

There will be times when you need to kneel fire tho from cover especially behind a wall even back then it would have been done. Also skirmishing will be kneel fire so I don't think it can be taken out the game. I know they all stood to fire in line when in the open.

[thomas aagaard]

sergeants of all branches who wished to carry it.

Sergeants in the infantry was not issued revolvers. An infantry regiment was not issued any revolvers.
And for much of the war the production of revolvers could not keep up with the numbers needed for issuing to the men who should have one.
(cavalry and a few sergeant in the artillery... for shooting horses)

So enlisted men in the infantry carrying a revolvers was in no way common, and really something you should not allow...



There will be times when you need to kneel fire tho from cover especially behind a wall even back then it would have been done. Also skirmishing will be kneel fire so I don't think it can be taken out the game. I know they all stood to fire in line when in the open.

Iam in no way suggestin that its taken out... My point is that both standing or both kneeling makes much more sense than front kneeling and rear standing. (unless in square) and the gamemechanics need to support this... so its easy to do without you shooting the man in front of you.

[Challis89]

Fair enough thought you were against it. and I agree it won't be hard as the rear rank takes half a pace to the right problem solved haha

As for revolvers families did send them to soldiers at the front they may not have been issue but if you read personal accounts revolvers and bowie knifes while bot issue did land with soldier and ncos. I know it wasn't everyone but enough will have had them to justify giving people the choice on here.

[David Dire]

Actually, the back rank moving to the right (inbetween the gaps of the people in the front) was a napoleonic era firing drill, so that's plausible. Though I assume most companies will want to play historically, and not with 50 year old drills :P

[thomas aagaard]

Fair enough thought you were against it. and I agree it won't be hard as the rear rank takes half a pace to the right problem solved haha

As for revolvers families did send them to soldiers at the front they may not have been issue but if you read personal accounts revolvers and bowie knifes while bot issue did land with soldier and ncos. I know it wasn't everyone but enough will have had them to justify giving people the choice on here.
And how many of the accounts are from the early part of the war? and how quickly where they thrown away(or send home again) because of the weight and bulk???




Actually, the back rank moving to the right (inbetween the gaps of the people in the front) was a napoleonic era firing drill, so that's plausible. Though I assume most companies will want to play historically, and not with 50 year old drills :P
US. infantry tactics (1861) 461. At the command aim, the rear rank man will also carry his right foot about eight inches to the right, to enable him to disengage his piece in firing over the shoulder of the front rank man.
Hardee revised. 176. The rear rank man, in aiming, will each carry the right foot about eight inches to the rights,(...)
Casey. 183. The rear-rank man, in aiming, will each carry the right foot about eight inches to the right,(...)

did not find Hardee 1855, but since Casey use the same exact words as "Hardee's revised" I would guess that both books is a word for word copy of Hardee's 1855 book.

So no, the rear rank tanking a small step to the right is not 50 year old drills... but exactly how it is described in both the prewar and wartime drill books...

[David Dire]

Ah, sorry then, I'm more knowledgeable of Napoleonic and American Revolution war tactics and drills rather than American Civil War ones.

[Willy The Walrus]

I take this thread to make a question
Is it posible to reload your rifle while you are kneel down?
You know, two files shooting at the same time

This would be hard because if a man were to kneel and try to reload the musket/rifle the rifle would probably be taller than him this is why they had fire and advance if I remember correctly at the Battle of Isandlwana in the anglo-zulu war they did fire and advance but It was effective because they had breechloaders.But the Idea is that one line would fire then the one behind would advance giving time fore the line behind to reload.

[thomas aagaard]

there is no problem in loading a minie type rifle musket kneeling. (other than it being a bit slower)
How you do it is clealry described in the drill books.
That said, its for use when in a skirmish line... and doing it in close order in two ranks do take some work.


What the brits did in a later war with different arms is not relevant.

[A. P. Hill]

Congrats on your promotion aagaard. :)

[thomas aagaard]

thanks... plan go a bit higher... but need cash to bribe the COL...

[SemajRednaxela]

Congrats on your promotion aagaard. :)

HA!

[FirstDiv2Corps]

if I remember correctly at the Battle of Isandlwana in the anglo-zulu war they did fire and advance but It was effective because they had breechloaders.But the Idea is that one line would fire then the one behind would advance giving time fore the line behind to reload.






What the brits did in a later war with different arms is not relevant.


The tactic wasn't unheard of during the Civil War. It was used some during the Battle of Chickamauga.

[HydricAcid]

From what I have read, the main reason an officer or no would be issued a revolver is to prevent their men from deserting. The officer's weapon was his command (all the way from a Lieutenant's section to a brigade, division, corps, or higher), and if an officer had to draw his weapon to defend himself, he was either not effective at his job, or in a very desperate situation.

I also saw mention of the 1st and 2nd USSS. From what I have read, officers in those regiments were not only issued rifles, but used them. Every man, from the teamsters to the surgeons to the privates on up to General Berdan himself was an expert marksman, and that coupled with the rebellious attitude the regiments and the rapid, severe attrition of the units blurring the lines between the enlisted, ncos, and officers meant that they all viewed themselves on equal footing and all fought as riflemen.

[R21]

From what I have read, the main reason an officer or no would be issued a revolver is to prevent their men from deserting.

..You have been kicked from the server for excessive Teamkilling....

Damn, I wanted to shoot so many deserters.





I also saw mention of the 1st and 2nd USSS. From what I have read, officers in those regiments were not only issued rifles, but used them.

I'd like to see this as an option, like picking a Revolver or a Rifle.

[HydricAcid]

It is a fun scenario to see at reenactments. My very first time on the field, my line (USS Tahoma Marine Guard at the time) was facing a North Carolina line really close. We're right up next to the spectators. I hear a loud "Where is you goin', boy!" And the NC Captain, a tall man with long hair, a big moustache, and an even bigger hat draws his revolver and gives this kid who had dropped his Enfield and run the shotgun barrel of his LeMat. It was quite the spectacle, and it was so hard not to laugh.