Army Organization

[Rithal]

Ok, here it is. I have done something like this I believe twice already, but I will go ahead and do it finally in one consolidated thread devoted to the topic.

The following is how I think units should organize themselves, and also follows the historic organization of each army. I will also go ahead and link the order of battle for the Maryland Campaign which were created meticulously by the WoR historical adviser (did I get that title right?), George Crecy. :D

Confederate Order of Battle: https://prezi.com/-wk1q66fd374/army-of-northern-virginia/

Union Order of Battle: https://prezi.com/ekkbj1xdoaay/army-of-the-potomac/

I am operating off the basis that each unit of people will be a company which will be operated by a lieutenant/captain. These lieutenants/captains will be the equivalent to colonels of old nw regiments. Its just a different name. The average number of people per regiment in NW was around 20-30 active so I will be using 25 as the number of people per company.

Army of Northern Virginia 1600 x number of divisions = At least 14400 infantry men

Longstreet's Corps (Artillery can either be reserved at the corps level or attached to each division)

McLaws' Division

2 or more Brigades 800 x 2 = 1600 (At least 1600 people per divison)

-4 or more Regiments (2 or more Regiments in each Brigade) 4 x 200 = 800 (800 people per brigade)

--16 or more companies (Between 8 - 12 Companies per Regiment) - 8 x 25 = 200 (200 people per regiment)

Anderson's Division

2 or more Brigades

-4 or more Regiments (2 or more Regiments in each Brigade)

--16 or more companies (Between 8 - 12 Companies per Regiment)

Jones' Division

2 or more Brigades

-4 or more Regiments (2 or more Regiments in each Brigade)

--16 or more companies (Between 8 - 12 Companies per Regiment)

Walker's Division

2 or more Brigades

-4 or more Regiments (2 or more Regiments in each Brigade)

--16 or more companies (Between 8 - 12 Companies per Regiment)

Hood's Division

2 or more Brigades

-4 or more Regiments (2 or more Regiments in each Brigade)

--16 or more companies (Between 8 - 12 Companies per Regiment)




Jackson's Corps

Hill's Division

2 or more Brigades

-4 or more Regiments (2 or more Regiments in each Brigade)

--16 or more companies (Between 8 - 12 Companies per Regiment)

J.R.Jones' Divison

2 or more Brigades

-4 or more Regiments (2 or more Regiments in each Brigade)

--16 or more companies (Between 8 - 12 Companies per Regiment)

D.H.Hill's Division

2 or more Brigades

-4 or more Regiments (2 or more Regiments in each Brigade)

--16 or more companies (Between 8 - 12 Companies per Regiment)

Ewell's Division

2 or more Brigades

-4 or more Regiments (2 or more Regiments in each Brigade)

--16 or more companies (Between 8 - 12 Companies per Regiment)

Stuart's Cavalry Corps (Assuming there is cavalry)

2 or more cavalry Brigades

-4 or more cavalry Regiments (2 or more Regiments per Brigade)

--8 or more cavalry Companies/Squadrons (2 or more Companies/Squadrons per Regiment)

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Army of the Potomac

The Union army was considerably larger than the confederate army therefore I will not provide the entire order of battle for the Union right now. This was mainly supposed to provide an idea of how many players can participate if we organize each army well. If armies seem too large to be able to operate efficiently it is possible that each "side" has an NA corps, and a corps developed to Europe and Australia (and any other place not in NA or SA).

[Brother_Padre]

That's all very nice and pretty, but are you seriously expecting over 30,000 people to get together and organize in to 2 armies?
Let alone have Colonels give up their ranks and happily be under the command of 5 stages of position (reg, brig, div, corps, army). I is a desirable structure to the community, but finding the right people for all the ranks, and then an overall army commander is frankly impossible. People with positions in the DA and UA would not make way to just become a Brigade. Also, your aren't counting in all the scouts, staff, artillery, sharpshooters and maybe engineers, medics and quartermasters(depending on how the game will, if any, utilize such things) This would be an astronomical feat to organize and keep everyone happy. I'm sorry dude, but however awesome this sounds it's not gonna happen.

[Bravescot]

I fully agree with Brother Padre. The ways you've been saying the armies of N&S or others should convert would not work. I know that in the UA we just about hit 900 men online (with out accurate counting) fighting for the UA and many of them are fighting in UA vs UA events as the DA can not field enough men to fight us (UA is heavy EU and DA is heavy NA). I also know that NW armies can only dream of fielding 900 men. The biggest body of men I knew of was the 2nd "Queen's Royal" Regiment of Foot (to be honest it was a Brigade the commander was just too pigheaded to name it so) which could field 200 men. For a single Brigade to be asked to field 1600 men is just out of the question. As Brother Padre pointed out it would need 30,000 men to field 2 armies. That's almost the whole M&S community would are going to make up the first wave of men very heavily.

For anything like this to work the numbers need to be drastically reduced and historical accuracy removed. There is only so far that you can go with historical accuracy before you start killing the game and vice versa. You'd need to take it down to:
2 Companies = Battalion.
2 Battalion = Regiment.
2 Regiments = Brigade.
That would need about 160 to Brigade (keeping to SgtRithal's 20 men min average) which makes a great deal more seance for numbers, Divisions would be 2 Brigade making it 320 which is far feasible.

[Rithal]

The main flaw that took numbers so high was the number of companies per regiment. I was providing a basic organization and then multiplied the organization by the number of historic divisions. The organization would still work. I was just showing how large the Army of Northern Virginia would be if roughly half of the regiments were filled out using my organization.

The argument that this wouldn't work because there are too many people involved is the exact reason why I was arguing for a standard and official form of unit organization, back in another thread, rather than simply using the forum and everyone going their own route.

Please keep in mind, the community for this game will definitely be bigger than North and South (hopefully), so we should stop using current standards in North and South as standards for this game.

[TrustyJam]

Keep lobbing your ideas at us. We're listening. :) A dedicated group tool is in development - we expect groups to use that as well as the forum.

- Trusty

[Rithal]

Keep lobbing your ideas at us. We're listening. :) A dedicated group tool is in development - we expect groups to use that as well as the forum.

- Trusty

Master has blessed me wi-with wor-words! :D

[Bravescot]

Much as your idea is cool and historical....it sticks. Myself and Brother Padre both speak with years of NW and N&S regiment experience, I personally man about to pass 3 years of NW. This is a case where historical accuracy can be damned. There should be NO central organization and "standards" that regiments need to meet. There should simply a unit managements screen that they can use in game and a forum that lists all taken names.

This game early doors SHOULD be held to the standards of N&S. As the thread "How did you find out for this game ?" only goes and proves most people who will be joining this community will be from the N&S community as the mod's loading screen is a huge ass advert for WoRs (rest of you devs should thank Hinkel for that). The Union Army is going to want to port over it's organisation into the game which is as follows, have fun converting this:

Union Army = 899 (On last count, number still not accurate)

Commander: Lieutenant General Ulysses S. Grant (Arcturus)

1st Corps = 678

Commander: Major General William T. Sherman (Hairywarhero)
Staff: Signals Sergeant Charles MacKenzie

1st Division = 213

1st New Jersey Brigade = 67

1st New Jersey Light Artillery = 15 men
3rd New Jersey Volunteer Cavalry = 15 men
7th New Jersey Volunteer Infantry = 20 men
9th New Jersey Volunteer Infantry = 15 men

2nd "Eagle" Brigade= 146 men

2nd Connecticut Sharpshooter = 15 men
2nd Rhode Island Volunteer Infantry = 27 men
11th New York Volunteer Infantry "Fire Zouaves" = 20
54th Massachusetts Volunteer Infantry = 30 men
72nd Pennsylvania Volunteer Infantry "Baxter's Fire Zouaves" = 30 men
79th New York Volunteer Infantry ""Cameron Highlanders" = 22 men

2nd Division = 178 men

Michigan Brigade = 83 men

1st Michigan Volunteer Cavalry = 20 men
20th Maine Volunteer Infantry = 27 men
69th New York Volunteer Infantry "The Fighting 69th" = 35 men

Raven Brigade = 95 men

3rd United States Regular Infantry = 20 men
15th Wisconsin Volunteer Infantry = 15 men
32nd Massachusetts Volunteer Infantry = 60 men

3rd Division = 235 men

Iron Brigade = 151 men

1st United States Sharpshooters = 38 men
9th New York Volunteer Infantry "Hawkins' Zouaves" = 52 men
14th New York State Militia "Red Legged Devils" = N/A (assume any missing numbers)
19th Maine Volunteer Infantry = 25 men
68th New York Volunteer Infantry "2nd German Rifles" = 32

German Brigade = 84 men

1st California Volunteer Infantry = 16 men
1st Ohio Light Artillery = 25 men
1st United States Dragoons = 16 men
9th Ohio Volunteer Infantry = 24 men

4th Division = 79 men

Gibraltar Brigade = 79 men

10th Kentucky Volunteer Infantry = 23 men
39th New York Volunteer Infantry "Garibaldi Guard" = 21 men
146th New York Volunteer Infantry "Garrards Tigers" = 32 men

Associated Confederates

Hays' Brigade = 221 men

1st Virginia Volunteer Cavalry = 15 men
3rd Arkansas Volunteer Infantry = 10 men
4th Texas Volunteer Infantry = 15 men
5th Missouri Volunteer Infantry = 15 men
7th Texas Light Artillery = 30 men
10th Louisiana Sharpshooters = 20 men
19th Louisiana Volunteer Infantry = 35 men
41st Tennessee Volunteer Infantry = 15 men
47th Virginia Volunteer Infantry = 15 men
51st Kentucky Volunteer Infantry = 30 men
55th Alabama Volunteer Infantry = 21 men

[Rithal]

Ok so, we have already been over this. I also speak from almost three years of NW experience, however that experience doesn't mean your opinion is automatically superior. Now that we have that out of the way, I really don't think there is any situation where historical accuracy can be "damned". This game is being built on the principles of being as historically accurate as possible. Just because a portion of the playerbase will be from N&S does not mean that WoR should be the same as N&S organization-wise. That is like trying to force a whole slew of people who have no association with the UA into the UA's organization if they want to even have a tiny bit of teamwork and collaboration on a great scale. I hope I'm not the only one who hopes that the Union side is composed of more than 899 people. ;)

[Octavian360]

I personally am in agreeance with a few individuals in this thread that although its awesome to illustrate the historical figures of the order of battle; it is not realistic in-game to have these sorts of numbers. We have yet to be told how many people can play on one map at any given time, will there be one mega server, or will you be able to host your own. If you are able to host your own usually the max number of people is ~64 slots give or take - split evenly that is 32 per side.

I have over 13+ years of Tactical Realism experience (leading 100+ member units e.g: 101st AB/502nd PIR) in Call of Duty 2, DoD:S (I only list this to show more experience in military games, I wouldnt even compare this to the other games I list this style of "tactical realism" is more competitive then historically accurate), ArmA II/III, RO1 (DH)/RO2/RS. A year in Mount & Blade NW (didnt care for the one line and bad units).

We should base unit setups on game perimeters, taking into account how many people can be on a server - while keeping it as historically accurate as possible. I would also suggest that we as a community put a population capp on units (e.g: 250 members - just listed some random number it could be regimental size or what have you); once this capp is reached those units would not be able to recruit anymore on these forums. This way we are not having 1-2 overpowering units and 10-20 small units. As seen in many games as time goes on units die out for one or more reasons more or less its due to inactivity. Allowing smaller units to grow helps facilitate a healthy community growth.

Another following suggestion... That requires the Developers and the Community to help. I suggest having an in-game outfit sign-up system that is connected with these forums. For example (rough idea), if someone wanted to join a unit for the North side there would be a dialogue box that lists the current openings within units in which they can apply for (enlisted, NCO, etc....) they click on an option and it takes them back to this website where they would have to apply. It would be twofold, bringing individuals back to these forums, facilitating that relationship and secondly helping units grow in a productive manner. To avoid outfit hopping, there should be a way within the unit management system in-game or out of game on these forums to place every person that leaves a discharge (honorable, less than honorable, dishonorable, general etc....) by unit leaders. Unit leaders could list their achievements (or lack there of) and would help the community identify unit hoppers, trolls, and overall bad members - further more helping the community to grow in a productive manner. This could very well be incorporated into the soldiers biography labeled "career".

On a completely separate note, I do not agree with incorporating procedures from N&S over to this game. While the two may seem similar we know very little still of WoR and in all honesty we should treat the games as two separate identities - im sure the developers want there to be very little confusion about the two games. We can certainly take what works and what doesn't into consideration but at the end of the day the community of N&S looked at the game and based their rules around the perimeters of it - we should take that advice for this game.

[Bravescot]

I must be honestest. I am heavily swayed by what Octavian just said. The listing of achievements (or lack there of) would remove the problem children one by one as nobody would accept them. But what do we do with them after that? Where do they go when nobody wants them?

We do need to prevent 1-2 super regiments and lots of lesser ones and I really like the regiment cap. My one question is can't a regiment just expand itself by taking another Company ie. I might command A, B and C Companies of the 72nd Pennsylvania. I reach my cap and simply add D Company to the list and boost said cap?

We would nae put our rules and we know this is a different game and not everybody is going to want to buy it. What we want is an easy way to convert our structure over and this is what I meant by WoRs should follow N&S in how it handles regiments, sorry if I was nae clear, and such (gameplay and the rest stay as far away from N&S as possible) as it will allow the UA, DA and other independent brigades and regiments to smoothly convert over. If the devs go to Company level then we need a smooth porting system to convert a regiment to a company and then we can work from there to redo our structure from there.

[Octavian360]

I must be honestest. I am heavily swayed by what Octavian just said. The listing of achievements (or lack there of) would remove the problem children one by one as nobody would accept them. But what do we do with them after that? Where do they go when nobody wants them?

Depending on the discharge there could be a time-limit attached to it of lets say 300 hours if this was your first dishonorable discharge. If it keeps happening within lets say a 3 month timeframe. The cooldown timer would increase to 3-months or something of the sort. There will always be units that pop-up that are made by power hungry unit hopper individuals, there will always be a place for those who have those tendencies.


We do need to prevent 1-2 super regiments and lots of lesser ones and I really like the regiment cap. My one question is can't a regiment just expand itself by taking another Company ie. I might command A, B and C Companies of the 72nd Pennsylvania. I reach my cap and simply add D Company to the list and boost said cap?

Like I said as a community we would need to outline what this capp is if accepted generally. I would sway away from having merges, of smaller regiments into the bigger ones because that just encourages a monopoly then. The units can expand however they wish, but the privilege of being promoted on these forums (posting in recruitment forums, or if we go along with the original idea of being able to be placed in the dialogue box) would be revoked so the other smaller units can get their advertising in without being in the shadows of these bigger units.

Hope both is more clarified now. Really hope to get some discussions going about this and possibly some Developer input.

[Bravescot]

I see where you're coming from for the timer idea etc. but what happens when the discharged was done in the heat of the moment? Might there also be the risk of troll regiments setting up then doing nothing but handing out discharges.

With the cap and other ideas the opening community might need its hand held by the Devs and (if the Devs are generous gods) potential community memebers. An example of an over ruling power would be the Devs as head admin then a small community team of moderators drawn from the players, like FSE has. Mods are chosen by the Devs and the Devs alone and help work alongside them to mold the community management to a sustainable point.

[Octavian360]

I see where you're coming from for the timer idea etc. but what happens when the discharged was done in the heat of the moment? Might there also be the risk of troll regiments setting up then doing nothing but handing out discharges.

With the cap and other ideas the opening community might need its hand held by the Devs and (if the Devs are generous gods) potential community memebers. An example of an over ruling power would be the Devs as head admin then a small community team of moderators drawn from the players, like FSE has. Mods are chosen by the Devs and the Devs alone and help work alongside them to mold the community management to a sustainable point.

There could be an appeal process for discharges similar to report appeals in other games that devs can look at on an individual basis. In regards to Troll regiments I wouldnt worry too much about this, they will get sniffed out from the community very quickly. With all recruitment being brought to this website recruitment posts tell alot of how a regiment is run and their culture. Most troll people dont take the time to make a serious post.

I am in support of your idea of a co-op between Dev and community members - great idea.

[Bravescot]

This could tie onto corporation between Devs and community members. Let's be real the Devs will nae have the time nor effort to deal with every discharge case. They could pick a dedicated team of community members they trust and set them up as the main court of appeals. The discharge two files are brought before them (no court room rubbish where both sides yell at one another). One is the appeal for discharge by the commanding officer the other an appeal for no discharge by the offender, the team simply hit yes or no and move on. The system should be anonymous to add equality.

This could link into the high command structure for when this game really hits large scale battles. Devs act as generals whilst the armies set themselves up then they hand over control to the new generals. If the army falls bellow a certain level of man power or fails to meet army structure it is called as "void" and the generals are stripped of their ranks by the system until the army can meet the needed structure and man power. This would prevent people declaring themselves BrigGens when all they have in their brigade is a single regiment.

[Rithal]

While you guys were having your very interesting side conversation, I went ahead and tried to "convert" the UA's current organization simply to a more historically accurate form.

1st Corps = 899 (On last count, number still not accurate)

Commander: Lieutenant General Ulysses S. Grant (Arcturus)

1st Division = 678

Commander: Major General William T. Sherman (Hairywarhero)
Staff: Signals Sergeant Charles MacKenzie

1st Brigade = 213

Artillery Detachment = 15 men (1st New Jersey Light Artillery)
Cavalry Detachment = 15 men (3rd New Jersey Volunteer Cavalry

*Regiment name goes here* = 67

Company A = 20 men
Company B = 15 men

*Regiment name goes here*= 146 men

Sharpshooter Detachment = 15 men
Company A = 27 men
Company B = 20
Company C = 30 men
Company D = 30 men
Company E = 22 men

2nd Brigade = 178 men

Cavalry Detachment = 20 men (1st Michigan Volunteer Cavalry)

*Regiment name goes here* = 83 men

Company A = 27 men
Company B = 35 men

*Regiment name goes here* = 95 men

Company A = 20 men
Company B = 15 men
Company C = 60 men

3rd Brigade = 235 men

Artillery Detachment = 25 men (1st Ohio Light Artillery)
Cavalry Detachment = 16 men (1st United States Dragoons)

*Regiment name goes here* = 151 men

Sharpshooter Detachment = 38 men
Company A = 52 men
Company B = N/A (assume any missing numbers)
Company C = 25 men
Company D = 32 men

*Regiment name goes here* = 84 men

Company A = 16 men
Company B = 24 men

4th Brigade = 79 men

*Regiment name goes here* = 79 men

Company A = 23 men
Company B = 21 men
Company C = 32 men

This is a more historically accurate organization and keeps to more realistic numbers, while also allowing for larger cohesive forces rather than three-five tiny ones.

You could even turn each "Brigade" into "Regiments" and have even larger forces if you wanted to.

[Hairywarhero]

i don't come here that often but it's nice people are talking about the UA ;) but yeah i don't really see alot of regiments wanting to move over if they are forced into making a company only. So i'm waiting for the game to come out to see if we can try do something.

[TrustyJam]

i don't come here that often but it's nice people are talking about the UA ;) but yeah i don't really see alot of regiments wanting to move over if they are forced into making a company only. So i'm waiting for the game to come out to see if we can try do something.

If people in your group are against change I don't really see the point of moving over either. ;)

- Trusty

[Rithal]

If people in your group are against change I don't really see the point of moving over either. ;)

- Trusty

I couldn't agree more :)

[Octavian360]

In all honesty this game is going to be listed on steam I believe, alot of people check the early access sections (assuming it will be placed there for a little bit) there will be a ton of people interested in checking this game out.

[Rithal]

In all honesty this game is going to be listed on steam I believe, alot of people check the early access sections (assuming it will be placed there for a little bit) there will be a ton of people interested in checking this game out.

That's what I hope will happen. Maybe we can get this included with mainstream games and played by lots of people, rather than just history buffs and those from NW :D I have no doubt really that this will grow in popularity.

[McClellan]

I fully agree with Brother Padre. The ways you've been saying the armies of N&S or others should convert would not work. I know that in the UA we just about hit 900 men online (with out accurate counting) fighting for the UA and many of them are fighting in UA vs UA events as the DA can not field enough men to fight us (UA is heavy EU and DA is heavy NA). I also know that NW armies can only dream of fielding 900 men. The biggest body of men I knew of was the 2nd "Queen's Royal" Regiment of Foot (to be honest it was a Brigade the commander was just too pigheaded to name it so) which could field 200 men. For a single Brigade to be asked to field 1600 men is just out of the question. As Brother Padre pointed out it would need 30,000 men to field 2 armies. That's almost the whole M&S community would are going to make up the first wave of men very heavily.

For anything like this to work the numbers need to be drastically reduced and historical accuracy removed. There is only so far that you can go with historical accuracy before you start killing the game and vice versa. You'd need to take it down to:
2 Companies = Battalion.
2 Battalion = Regiment.
2 Regiments = Brigade.
That would need about 160 to Brigade (keeping to SgtRithal's 20 men min average) which makes a great deal more seance for numbers, Divisions would be 2 Brigade making it 320 which is far feasible.


Incorrect here.

It goes Unit - Bunkmates - Squad or Section - Platoon - Company - Regiment OR Battalion. Regiment is usually 1,000-1,500 with Battalions being on the same level, just larger. Around 2,000 or so. THEN Brigade - Division - Corps


Modern warfare your way is correct, but in this era, its different. ;)

[Bravescot]

"Battalions and regiments were formed by organizing companies together. In the volunteers (Union and Confederate), 10 companies would be organized together into a regiment. The regiment was commanded by a colonel. A regiment has the following staff (one of each):"

http://www.angelfire.com/wv/wasec5/formations.html

Am I not incorrect in saying one firing order was "Firing by battalion" with in a regiment.

[Rithal]

I always understood it as a regiment was made up of multiple battalions which were made up of companies. That was how it was in World War Two I believe but maybe not in the Civil War. It is possible that a battalion was just a name of a group of companies that was not quite regiment strength. Its even possible that battalions were formed for each battle out of companies according to the situation. For example a CO of a regiment may see it fit to form a battalion of 6 companies to assault an enemy defensive formation, while forming another battalion of the remaining 4 companies as a reserve. I don't know. Maybe I'm just over here talking out of my arse! :D

[Bravescot]

Oh mighty devs we beseech you! Shower us with your actual knowledge on this matter

[William]

If people in your group are against change I don't really see the point of moving over either. ;)

- Trusty


Because ist there ARmy there Clan there Group and they shzould Play the game how they like to..... thats why
and the Point of moving is because maby they like WoR the game more then N&S

[William]

i´m not a fon from the Company etc etc because if you Play like Company A Regiment .... and then a other ass how is a total troll idiot what so ebvery Plays Company B Regiment... the same reg what you in then every one could think they work together or what so every if you are same "Regiment" with People how do total other stuff then you and your men.....we will have a community like in GAME OF THRONES xD every one wants to kik out each other to have names or stuff for himself xD i wouldn´t like to Play as 68th New York Comp A and a idiot Plays Comp B and because he is doing shit guys say yeah the 68th blabla shit wähh i think if the companys of one Regiment every think works nice together that will be epic but to let sooo mutch guys worktogether will be hard in real in a real army or Job ist one Thing in a game where you want to have fun in your freetime thats totally diffrent XD i think or not ?

[TrustyJam]

Because ist there ARmy there Clan there Group and they shzould Play the game how they like to..... thats why
and the Point of moving is because maby they like WoR the game more then N&S

If everyone was to play the game how they wanted there would never be a game. We're not going into details about the group system just yet. It is still in an early phase of development.

- Trusty

[William]

If everyone was to play the game how they wanted there would never be a game. We're not going into details about the group system just yet. It is still in an early phase of development.

- Trusty

the ting is i will Play with my men how i want and if i would be forced to paly with guys in a reg i don´t like the way i don´t want ......
its a game a hisotircal game but a game you should should not be foreced from the community wiht you must you must do stuff or to Play with guys you don´t like, is too mutch force even for the greatest game for me ...

[TrustyJam]

the ting is i will Play with my men how i want and if i would be forced to paly with guys in a reg i don´t like the way i don´t want ......
its a game a hisotircal game but a game you should should not be foreced from the community wiht you must you must do stuff or to Play with guys you don´t like, is too mutch force even for the greatest game for me ...

Never said anything about forcing people to play together. Please wait until we've announced the system before taking such conclusions. :)

- Trusty

[Bravescot]

Oh mighty devs we beseech you! Shower us with your actual knowledge on this matter

Still waiting on someone with proper knowlage coming in a solving the issue that McClellan raised.

[Rithal]

Still waiting on someone with proper knowlage coming in a solving the issue that McClellan raised.

Well my knowledge may not be "proper" but as I said before, I believe battalions in the American Civil War were ad hoc units formed of several companies, usually three or four. In other words they were organized according to each situation, which goes back to the example I gave in my previous reply. This was the case in regiments that did not have set battalions, meaning some regiments did have set battalions. One battalion would be A, B, and C companies. One battalion would be D, E, and F companies. Another would be G, H ,I and K ("J" was not used due to its similarity to the letter "I" when capitalized) companies. This follows a 10 company structure. Companies were further divided into two platoons, and platoons were divided into sections. So here is the standard organization of the U.S army during the Civil War:

Section (25 men) --> Platoon (50 men) --> Company (100 men) --> Battalion (300 - 400 men) --> Regiment (1,000 men) -->

Brigade (2,000 - 12,000 men)(Average = 4,000 - 5,000 men) -->

Division (4,000 - 60,000 men)(Average = 11,000 - 15,000 men) --> Corps (8,000 - 360,000 men)(Average = 32,000 - 44,000 men) -->

Army (8,000 - 2,880,000 men)(Average = 118,000 - 164,000 men)

Wow, that math hurt my head. Thanks Wikipedia ;)

[Bravescot]

One battalion would be A, B, and C companies. One battalion would be D, E, and F companies. Another would be G, H ,I and K

^ Works for me in terms of what I said. This reinforces it actually.

[Rithal]

^ Works for me in terms of what I said. This reinforces it actually.

Yep. That's how I always understood battalions were organized. Its either like that or a Regiment CO would re-adjust battalions based on the needs of the conflict. So they could be more fluid rather than being a set organization.

[GeorgeCrecy]

"Battalions and regiments were formed by organizing companies together. In the volunteers (Union and Confederate), 10 companies would be organized together into a regiment. The regiment was commanded by a colonel. A regiment has the following staff (one of each):"

http://www.angelfire.com/wv/wasec5/formations.html

Am I not incorrect in saying one firing order was "Firing by battalion" with in a regiment.

When speaking of firing orders on a regimental level, you had various options available to you. For one, there was "Fire by volley! FIRE" in which everyone in the 1,096 regiment would fire. There was "Fire by Ranks! First rank, FIRE" in which the first rank, then the second rank with the proper orders would fire. There was "Fire by Files from the (right/left)! FIRE" in which the two men in both ranks of the same file could fire, followed by the next file after a small delay, then the next and on down the line, while those that fired automatically loaded. All of this could also be implemented on the company, and definitely on the battalion level as well, as it is between company and regimental org. levels. For a battalion, they could fire by files or in a volley by having the commanding officer give the orders to "Fire by Battalion, Volley Fire/Fire by Files." All sorts of fun things!

[Rithal]

Thanks for the good historic insight as always George! :)

[Historical Player]

Ok, here it is. I have done something like this I believe twice already, but I will go ahead and do it finally in one consolidated thread devoted to the topic.

The following is how I think units should organize themselves, and also follows the historic organization of each army. I will also go ahead and link the order of battle for the Maryland Campaign which were created meticulously by the WoR historical adviser (did I get that title right?), George Crecy. :D

Confederate Order of Battle: https://prezi.com/-wk1q66fd374/army-of-northern-virginia/

Union Order of Battle: https://prezi.com/ekkbj1xdoaay/army-of-the-potomac/

I am operating off the basis that each unit of people will be a company which will be operated by a lieutenant/captain. These lieutenants/captains will be the equivalent to colonels of old nw regiments. Its just a different name. The average number of people per regiment in NW was around 20-30 active so I will be using 25 as the number of people per company.

Army of Northern Virginia 1600 x number of divisions = At least 14400 infantry men

Longstreet's Corps (Artillery can either be reserved at the corps level or attached to each division)

McLaws' Division

2 or more Brigades 800 x 2 = 1600 (At least 1600 people per divison)

-4 or more Regiments (2 or more Regiments in each Brigade) 4 x 200 = 800 (800 people per brigade)

--16 or more companies (Between 8 - 12 Companies per Regiment) - 8 x 25 = 200 (200 people per regiment)

Anderson's Division

2 or more Brigades

-4 or more Regiments (2 or more Regiments in each Brigade)

--16 or more companies (Between 8 - 12 Companies per Regiment)

Jones' Division

2 or more Brigades

-4 or more Regiments (2 or more Regiments in each Brigade)

--16 or more companies (Between 8 - 12 Companies per Regiment)

Walker's Division

2 or more Brigades

-4 or more Regiments (2 or more Regiments in each Brigade)

--16 or more companies (Between 8 - 12 Companies per Regiment)

Hood's Division

2 or more Brigades

-4 or more Regiments (2 or more Regiments in each Brigade)

--16 or more companies (Between 8 - 12 Companies per Regiment)




Jackson's Corps

Hill's Division

2 or more Brigades

-4 or more Regiments (2 or more Regiments in each Brigade)

--16 or more companies (Between 8 - 12 Companies per Regiment)

J.R.Jones' Divison

2 or more Brigades

-4 or more Regiments (2 or more Regiments in each Brigade)

--16 or more companies (Between 8 - 12 Companies per Regiment)

D.H.Hill's Division

2 or more Brigades

-4 or more Regiments (2 or more Regiments in each Brigade)

--16 or more companies (Between 8 - 12 Companies per Regiment)

Ewell's Division

2 or more Brigades

-4 or more Regiments (2 or more Regiments in each Brigade)

--16 or more companies (Between 8 - 12 Companies per Regiment)

Stuart's Cavalry Corps (Assuming there is cavalry)

2 or more cavalry Brigades

-4 or more cavalry Regiments (2 or more Regiments per Brigade)

--8 or more cavalry Companies/Squadrons (2 or more Companies/Squadrons per Regiment)

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Army of the Potomac

The Union army was considerably larger than the confederate army therefore I will not provide the entire order of battle for the Union right now. This was mainly supposed to provide an idea of how many players can participate if we organize each army well. If armies seem too large to be able to operate efficiently it is possible that each "side" has an NA corps, and a corps developed to Europe and Australia (and any other place not in NA or SA).
I like this, but I have to agree with Padre as well. I'm sure we could downsize it to fit the average event size, or we can have gigantic events once a month where communities fight each other. My Ancestor was in Jones Brigade with the 42nd Virginia Infantry.

[Rithal]

I like this, but I have to agree with Padre as well. I'm sure we could downsize it to fit the average event size, or we can have gigantic events once a month where communities fight each other. My Ancestor was in Jones Brigade with the 42nd Virginia Infantry.

Well, considering we don't know how gameplay and server setup will work in terms of groups, i was only suggesting a setup like this for off of the battlefield.

[DictatorDom]

Ah, I enjoy learning about the Confederate aspect of things, but the 1st Jersey Brigade makes me proud as hell of my state.

[Octavian360]

Ah, I enjoy learning about the Confederate aspect of things, but the 1st Jersey Brigade makes me proud as hell of my state.

The Iron Brigade makes me very proud of my state (WI), along with my heritage with the Irish Brigade :)

[Bravescot]

I'm just proud of my boys in Eagle Brigade *brushes away tear*

[Caserta34]

The 7th West Virginia played a big part in the sunken road

[Brother_Padre]

I'm just proud of my boys in Eagle Brigade *brushes away tear*

*Pats on the back* 'It's ok general, but you knew 2nd Division was always going to win.'

[Bravescot]

*Pats on the back* 'It's ok general, but you knew 2nd Division was always going to win.'

Sherman (Augusts style): "Horace! Horace! Bring be back my Regiments!"

[Historical Player]

Sherman (Augusts style): "Horace! Horace! Bring be back my Regiments!"

Run Horace Run!

[Rithal]

Run Horace Run!

Congratulations, you just broke the internet XD

[Historical Player]

Congratulations, you just broke the internet XD

Kim Kardashian eat your heart out!

[Bravescot]

Congratulations, you just broke the internet XD

Great so who's going to fix it?

[Historical Player]

Great so who's going to fix it?

Don't worry I already fixed it!