Segmented Reloading

[R21]

Really crude Mock-up I made for a UI element to go along with Segmented Reloading:

7427

Player Taps R and this UI element flashes up on the screen during which time the Player can do the relevant stage of a Reload (like tap R then press 1 to load the cartridge, after this Tap R then press 2 and so on). If the Player holds R for 2 seconds then your character does the full reload cycle without needing these stages.

Not sure which way round it'd work best (Holding R for full Reload, and tapping R for these UI elements or vice versa).

[Poorlaggedman]

I'd really like to see that for several reasons if I ever get around to making that post (which I guess I'll do here at some point).

Basically reloading is a large part of the experience in this type of combat. The standard reload animation with the head bobbing is cool the first hundred times but it isn't enough to engage the player in the long run. I'm already well-over it and wish for something more from the animators.

You could slow the process down for the default reload by several seconds and add in fumbling to any of the stages as (individual) morale is worn down. Then make the stages done manually a little faster, perhaps influenced by the player tapping his r key at a rapid rate in the stages or reallocating the numbers (or other keys) to serve that purpose. It should be a more complicated and frantic experience (preferably without the predictable head movement) and I think it's worth the amount of effort it would take since reloading is a huge part of any future gameplay that is actually shooting-oriented and not meelee-oriented.

[R21]

Basically reloading is a large part of the experience in this type of combat. The standard reload animation with the head bobbing is cool the first hundred times but it isn't enough to engage the player in the long run. I'm already well-over it and wish for something more from the animators.



Pretty much my thoughts on it aswell. I feel there's too much of a disassociation with the process and your character given how long it currently takes, at the very least they need to split it into two stages.

Adding more to my original idea:

7428

If a Player were to tap R during the highlighted blue section (there'd be a progress bar in the UI element) then instead of the character stopping, lowering their Weapon and then waiting for the Player to initiate the next phase their character would just carry on with the animation uninterrupted. It could even be made so that the UI element flashes or pulsates during the relevant period for the Player to press R and carr yon the Reload.

The kind of Scenario I can see this being useful for:

Player initiates first Stage of Reload but then see's enemy Player, Player doesn't press R to continue the Reload animation and character lowers Weapon with Stage 1 complete. Player has bayonet Mounted and feels able to defend himself in close quarters but team mates kill the enemy before said Player needs to.

Player then carries on other stages of Reload.

or the inverse of that situation, a Player thinking they need to stop the Reload process but then realise they're safe and just carry on uninterrupted.

Giving the Reload process this bit of dynamism would be a great feature imo and not just a novelty.

[Poorlaggedman]

Well... We don't need a user interface or a HUD. It's okay to have a little learning curve but that stuff just adds clutter to the screen that you don't need.

The reload process is not something too terribly hard to learn but it's vastly more complex than most other games and worthy of more attention than just one basic reload animation. If the real guys messed it up and forgot to put a cap on or just kept ramming bullets home then it deserves more attention.

Even the realistic and less complex reload animations in other games usually have slight variations when it comes to working a bolt if a round is already in the chamber.

A few different reload stages.
1. Retrieving and putting a cartridge in the weapon.
2. Ramming it and returning the rammer.
3. Putting a cap on and fully cocking the hammer.

Chain the animator to his desk and have him add in a couple fumbling animations for each segment and program them in to happen on occasion, moreso when under duress.

With each able to be either aborted outright (as current reloads) or finished on their own. The next attempt at reloading should start with where it left off or whatever number stage (1, 2, 3) the player starts. I'm not sure what would happen if tried to fire with multiple cartridges rammed down? Would it blow up?

Notice the guy loses a firing cap during his first reload.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gxg8fgIxm3w&t=0m54s

[R21]

Chain the animator to his desk and have him add in a couple fumbling animations for each segment and program them in to happen on occasion, moreso when under duress.

With each able to be either aborted outright (as current reloads) or finished on their own. The next attempt at reloading should start with where it left off or whatever number stage (1, 2, 3) the player starts. I'm not sure what would happen if tried to fire with multiple cartridges rammed down? Would it blow up?



Personally, i'd like to see this aswell (like placing the Cap on First or ramming Multiple Rounds in) Not sure whether it'd explode or not, I imagine with say 2 in the Barrel the rounds would just be really inaccurate when fired. Probably completely wrong on that though so any buffs feel free to correct me!


Well... We don't need a user interface or a HUD. It's okay to have a little learning curve but that stuff just adds clutter to the screen that you don't need.



I meant making it minimal, like these see through indicators would only appear briefly when the relevant key was pressed (Like you currently have tapping T to see where the Objective is) so new players can learn the system.

[Bivoj]

+1 to the idea

[javelina]

you guys are onto something. I like this idea as well.

[Cookie]

+... I really like the idea it's not like just waiting while reloading

[R21]

Made a Video on it:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fQ5DXDg8gok&feature=youtu.be

I think it's a reasonably solid system, with Decent UI Artwork and a bit of testing it'd be a feature that'd add a lot to the overall Game imo.

[David Dire]

QTEs are simply annoying once the novelty fades, if it has any at all. Fumbling around for keys isnt what I consider fun. I can tell you personally reloading a musket isnt difficult at all and has more tactile feedback then pressing buttons on a keyboard, and is really only harder if your barrel gets too hot to even touch.

[R21]

I think it's a good option to have there and Players would still be able to do the full Reload without the need to tap R during by holding R for say 1-1.5 seconds. I wouldn't exactly call it a full blown Quicktime event either, when I say Tap R I literally mean tap once during the relevant section not repeatedly just to Chain the sections together.

Having the two side by side would be a great move imo.

[Poorlaggedman]

QTEs are simply annoying once the novelty fades, if it has any at all. Fumbling around for keys isnt what I consider fun. I can tell you personally reloading a musket isnt difficult at all and has more tactile feedback then pressing buttons on a keyboard, and is really only harder if your barrel gets too hot to even touch.

Annoying as opposed to what? Staring at the exact same animation over and over again with the same uninterrupted head bobbing each time? And not being able to stop and continue a reload in a fluid combat situation? At present you are a sitting duck when reloading and have limited opportunity to keep alert for Imperial Japanese running at you full sprint.

Reloading on a firing range with half your crap laying on a table in front of you is totally different than reloading in a combat situation with adrenaline, sweat, and your heart racing. It doesn't matter what weapon you're reloading.

[David Dire]

Annoying as opposed to what? Staring at the exact same animation over and over again with the same uninterrupted head bobbing each time? And not being able to stop and continue a reload in a fluid combat situation? At present you are a sitting duck when reloading and have limited opportunity to keep alert for Imperial Japanese running at you full sprint.

Reloading on a firing range with half your crap laying on a table in front of you is totally different than reloading in a combat situation with adrenaline, sweat, and your heart racing. It doesn't matter what weapon you're reloading.


Your argument is assuming they never change the current reloading system from what it is. They do plan to make it so your character will make mistakes, they do plan to have different animations to keep it different, and theyll definitely make it more fluid.

[javelina]

Your argument is assuming they never change the current reloading system from what it is. They do plan to make it so your character will make mistakes, they do plan to have different animations to keep it different, and theyll definitely make it more fluid.

this would be good, mixing it up from time to time. plus the stress of battle, etc.

[R21]

Not sure how I feel about fumbling, if it's just a bit of spice in the animations (like taking half a second longer or doing something slightly differently) then that's great, but your character randomly dropping stuff with no real context or chance of control could just be annoying.

Fumbling could be implemented into my system, like if you don't complete the first stage it counts as your character dropping the shot whilst trying to load and an appropriate Animation for this, this would Definitely lead to people putting Double/triple loads of Powder in their Guns which could lead to some interesting situations, lol.

The above combined with randomised Animations could be the way to go, Player has Control and there's a slight Risk reward element to it (wasting a round so you can lower your Weapon to counter closing enemies with Melee/potentially double or triple loading and speeding up fouling of your Gun and making it more inaccurate for that Shot).

[McMuffin]

As David said, I don't want a QTE just for reloading, it will be an annoyance and just make things unnecessarily complicated, I don't see the actual point for adding this. What I would like to see is the reloading cycle using the broken up cycle so that when you are reloading and cancel it, you don't have to start all the way over if you only have to put the cap on. But if you are under fire or maybe if your team has very low morale, mistakes can happen. That's better than pushing buttons to reload for no reason,

[Dman979]

I'd rather not see this implemented.

I think that it will quickly become repetitive, just like the current system. And of the two, I'd rather go with the one which requires less user input. I don't want to be mashing buttons every second or so- that would be more grindy to me than the current system.

Best,
Dman979

[R21]

What I would like to see is the reloading cycle using the broken up cycle so that when you are reloading and cancel it, you don't have to start all the way over if you only have to put the cap on.

I had this exact same thought but I get the feeling this would be way more difficult to do than the system i'm proposing, which is why i'm suggesting it.

Remembering exactly where in the overall Animation probbaly more difficult than having pre-defined Segments, could be wrong on that though.

And @ 'QTE/Button Bashing' the system would be 3 taps of R over the entire 14 second? Reload process, if you can't manage that then you've got some serious hand eye co-ordination issues :p

[McMuffin]

Not exactly, just break it up into segments like you did with that same grouping and once you have started that animation, it marks it as done and if you cancel it you start just from that 'checkpoint' in a way automatically.

[R21]

Semantics :D

[McMuffin]

And @ 'QTE/Button Bashing' the system would be 3 taps of R over the entire 14 second? Reload process, if you can't manage that then you've got some serious hand eye co-ordination issues :p

It's not that they are hard, people hate QTE's. There's a stereotype about QTE's making a game shitty or look worse for a reason, they look like lazy or poorly done attempts to try and 'immerse' you or keep you involved in the game. Plus, you think the reloading animations now are boring and frustrating? Having to do QTE's over and over and over and over and over again, possibly messing up multiple times will drive you up the wall. And the reloading is 20 seconds, not 14. And some people will take the time during the reloading animation to do some other things like reply to a steam chat, search something, communicate in game (I personally do this A LOT), etc.

[Poorlaggedman]

I've never heard of the term QTE but the more I hear you guys bitch about them the more I'm convinced we need it.

[R21]

QTE = Quick time event, which what i'm proposing really isn't.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Yy44s_de15Y

It's like saying having to press RMB to bring up your sights then pressing LMB while aiming to fire is a QTE because you're chaining these actions together.

[Bivoj]

Wile segmented reloading is very great idea, there is no need for HUD pictures and definitely NO to any QTE.

@Poorlaggedman - I am surprised, that you have no experience with it, but believe me - it is not good gameplay mechanic, very far from realism and it used to be implemented in poor mainstream arcadish games; it is now being abandoned even by the mainstream crap.

[Leifr]

I've never heard of the term QTE but the more I hear you guys bitch about them the more I'm convinced we need it.


Quick time events are terrible and are about as engaging as the current situation.

[dmurray6]

This type of suggestion has been thrown out to the forums, its seems, every few months since AT LEAST mid 2015. I don't think anyone that supports a segmented reload process is actually calling for a QTE. I for one also brought this up in discussion at some point since I joined the forums in Apr 2016. What I was more or less thinking is that you could break the reload process into just a series of "r" presses that coincide perhaps with the steps of a reload as they exist in a drill manual. What are they, something like 9 steps or so (or a limited set of "r" presses that combine some of the actions as shown below)?

The basis would be that you could possibly begin a retreat in the middle of a reload, without abandoning the whole reload and without having to start completely over once you've reached a location where you want to continue your reload.

So the commands are what (from Gilhams):

1. Load
2. Handle cartridge
3. Tear cartridge
4. Charge cartridge
5. Draw rammer
6. Ram cartridge
7. Return rammer
8. Cast about
9. Prime
10. Shoulder arms

So a segmented reload could be something like this with "r" presses:

1. Handle, tear, and charge cartridge
2. Draw Rammer, Ram cartridge, return rammer
3. Cast about, prime, shoulder arms

This would make the loading process a 3 "r" press series. But not linked in a QTE event. If you get past the first "r" press and decide to retreat 50 yards, then your 2nd "r" press would take care of the ramming (but perhaps only if it happens within 30 seconds of the 1st "r" press). It could be assumed that if your 2nd "r" press occurred outside a 30 second limit, that the cartridge that was charged from the first "r" press never got rammed, and thus became dislodged from the muzzle prior to ramming (maybe while you ran 50 yards to safety?). So your next "r" press will initiate another step 1 (handle, tear, charge cartridge). 2nd press, draw, ram, return rammer, and 3rd press cast about, prime, and shoulder arms. Rince and repeat.

Perhaps they can come up with scenarios where a soldier might ram multiple balls into the muzzle? Perhaps instead of multiple "r" presses, the steps coincide with presses of 1,2,3? That way the numbers match the step you've already performed. With random chances of failure that could revolve around the fact that you already succeeded in step 1, but then retreated and thus you continue with step 2, but are unaware that your ball dislodged and fell out during your retreat, which means if you continue through step 3 and fire, that you're likely to have a proper fire of the weapon but with no lead propelled down range?

Is that more robust than a QTE or just more annoying?

Honesty, if I were a game developer, I wouldn't be looking to build in time gaps for my players to reply to other steam chats and address other out-of-game activities. I've never heard someone complain about a game because "it doesn't allow me time to multitask!" LOL

[David Dire]

Considering civil war combat was based in every way off communication, it's a very good point to let players multitas while reloading.

[dmurray6]

Considering civil war combat was based in every way off communication, it's a very good point to let players multitas while reloading.

Besides the fact that this is off the topic of segmented reloading.....

I can't seem to wrap my head around ALL the examples you provided. Considering the noise, the smoke, and the fact that both hands were on the rifle, considering the ability to see and hear are already in-game, I'm finding it difficult to recognize ALL the time the soldiers had to multitask. Please, inform me.

I'm guessing by your response, you're not a fan of making the reload anything beyond a single press of "r".

[Dman979]

I am not at all in favor of segmented reloading. I would prefer to press the button once to make my gun reload, not three times. Less fuss, less mess.

Best,
Dman979

[R21]

This type of suggestion has been thrown out to the forums, its seems, every few months since AT LEAST mid 2015. I don't think anyone that supports a segmented reload process is actually calling for a QTE. I for one also brought this up in discussion at some point since I joined the forums in Apr 2016. What I was more or less thinking is that you could break the reload process into just a series of "r" presses that coincide perhaps with the steps of a reload as they exist in a drill manual. What are they, something like 9 steps or so (or a limited set of "r" presses that combine some of the actions as shown below)?

The basis would be that you could possibly begin a retreat in the middle of a reload, without abandoning the whole reload and without having to start completely over once you've reached a location where you want to continue your reload.



Exactly the type of scenario i'm envisioning for it's use, like Players being over run and forced to Retreat and being able to finish off their partial Reloads at their new position.

I see it as a Boon TBH and a Morale Booster. A player having the knowledge his Gun is partially loaded will probably try better to preserve their in-Game life and Retreat to a new position rather than just blindly Melee like they do now. It seems like a small thing but I genuinely think it'd add to the Game and not detract.

If people are that on the fence about it, it could even be made a server-side option (like you have Manual Bolting in RO2). I'm willing to bet that was argued to Death on their forums, but having the two side by side gives the best of both options.

Also, Multi-tasking/Communication? You'll still be able to use your Mic and talk whilst doing it?

[Poorlaggedman]

No need for nine steps. I liked it better with three.

Yeah, the multi-tasking excuses are really lame. The time to type is when you're dead. How is communication more important to Civil War combat than any other? Do tell.

I would however like the darn game to let me select an option to load as soon as I spawn. And away with that worthless 'deploy' button. Breaking my respawn up into 2-3 segments (wait to hit deploy... start reloading... move out) of 30 seconds a piece is obnoxious.

[David Dire]

No need for nine steps. I liked it better with three.

Yeah, the multi-tasking excuses are really lame. The time to type is when you're dead.


How realistic.


How is communication more important to Civil War combat than any other? Do tell.

I never said this.

[Poorlaggedman]

No, you implied it when you said Civil War combat and stated something. As if guys running around on a map spraying 200 bullets a minute don't need it as much as players firing 2 rounds a minute.

Considering civil war combat was based in every way off communication, it's a very good point to let players multitas while reloading.

The purpose, as far as I'm concerned, is to break up the process. Right now only fools reload in close quarters combat (ANYTHING under 75 meters!). If you're going from one extreme ('one step' reloading) to another ('nine steps'), it's okay to stop in between. That will allow players to pause their head bobbing routine and notice the guy bum rushing him. Admittedly you don't really need to look around you already know he's coming. The very thought of a close quarters firefight which is not contrived is so far beyond reach right now in this game it seems impossible.

[David Dire]

No, you implied it when you said Civil War combat and stated something. As if guys running around on a map spraying 200 bullets a minute don't need it as much as players firing 2 rounds a minute.


...Considering civil war combat was based in every way off communication...

I think you should read up on what an implication is.

[R21]

*Puts on back-seat Moderator Hat* :p

Try not to make personal Snipes at eachother, keep it on Topic.

Also added a Poll.

[Joco]

+1
poll is great idea

[Maximus Decimus Meridius]

I like the idea of segmented reloading but hit three times to fully reload my rifle? I think it will be annoying after the 2nd round.

[dmurray6]

No need for nine steps. I liked it better with three.

Yeah, the multi-tasking excuses are really lame. The time to type is when you're dead. How is communication more important to Civil War combat than any other? Do tell.

I would however like the darn game to let me select an option to load as soon as I spawn. And away with that worthless 'deploy' button. Breaking my respawn up into 2-3 segments (wait to hit deploy... start reloading... move out) of 30 seconds a piece is obnoxious.

Yea, I kind of thought about the 1,2,3 as I was typing my response, and after seeing that the Gilham commands for a reload fit nicely into associated groups. Group 1 cartridge activities, Group 2 rammer activities, and group 3 finishing activities.

I think this would provide awesome opportunities for soldiers to accidentally load multiple rounds. For example, they complete steps 1 and 2, and then retreat a decent distance on the battlefield, only to start their reload process over again with step1. Now two cartridges have been rammed. Would provide a great moment to implement a variation of a rifle fire that has two rounds and double powder. Also, I think the segmented reload provides the ability to better react to officer commands. I've been stuck on multiple occasions in the middle of a "fire at will" situation, where then a retreat command or another tactical decision has been made where I need to relocate. I have to either abandon my reload or let it finish. Either way something sucks, I'm either losing a partial reload or I'm disobeying the command to move as a unit.

In the interest of establishing talking points in defense of a segmented reload, I'd be willing to bet that the reload process was interrupted quite often. This is not an invitation for all forum members to try and prove to me that it was or was not by sending me book quotes and references. Unless you were standing on the field in a battle line (not a reenacator), I don't need to hear your evidence. It's not a concept that can be adequately proven at this point. its just a logical thought. But if you believe that every soldier during the Civil War that started a rifle reload actually finished 100% of the time, well then......I don't know how to respond without chalking up a forum violation! ;)

I personally don't find a requirement to hit 1,2,3 to reload my weapon any more difficult or annoying as having to remember which function keys to hit to perform any of the other motions in-game (salute and all the others). Only segmenting the reload process would provide a better time to observe your surroundings before beginning the next step. I find trying to use the free-look (alt) key just as annoying as watching my head change directions during the reload. I think its fairly impossible to keep track of an approaching enemy using free-look while loading. So I'd likely look around (if the situation called for it) between steps 1, 2, and 3, if the reload was to become segmented.

Regards,

[Saris]

I love this game for its historical immersion but please don't add multiple buttons for the reload.

[David Dire]

Also, a good commander will have you resting, or at least not loading, whenever he gives a movement command. Retreating is for "every man for himself" and is for you to do your own thing.

[R21]

I think this would provide awesome opportunities for soldiers to accidentally load multiple rounds. For example, they complete steps 1 and 2, and then retreat a decent distance on the battlefield, only to start their reload process over again with step1. Now two cartridges have been rammed. Would provide a great moment to implement a variation of a rifle fire that has two rounds and double powder. Also, I think the segmented reload provides the ability to better react to officer commands. I've been stuck on multiple occasions in the middle of a "fire at will" situation, where then a retreat command or another tactical decision has been made where I need to relocate. I have to either abandon my reload or let it finish. Either way something sucks, I'm either losing a partial reload or I'm disobeying the command to move as a unit.

In the interest of establishing talking points in defense of a segmented reload, I'd be willing to bet that the reload process was interrupted quite often. This is not an invitation for all forum members to try and prove to me that it was or was not by sending me book quotes and references. Unless you were standing on the field in a battle line (not a reenacator), I don't need to hear your evidence. It's not a concept that can be adequately proven at this point. its just a logical thought. But if you believe that every soldier during the Civil War that started a rifle reload actually finished 100% of the time, well then......I don't know how to respond without chalking up a forum violation! ;)

I personally don't find a requirement to hit 1,2,3 to reload my weapon any more difficult or annoying as having to remember which function keys to hit to perform any of the other motions in-game (salute and all the others). Only segmenting the reload process would provide a better time to observe your surroundings before beginning the next step. I find trying to use the free-look (alt) key just as annoying as watching my head change directions during the reload. I think its fairly impossible to keep track of an approaching enemy using free-look while loading. So I'd likely look around (if the situation called for it) between steps 1, 2, and 3, if the reload was to become segmented.



+1, my thoughts exactly.

Double and triple loading should definitely be a thing, it's kind of like it's own reward system (you reload properly and don't do it, you don't get the negative effects, if you constantly forget and accidentally double and triple load it speeds up the rate at which your Gun fouls immensley along with the shots themselves being innaccurate and having massive recoil) which could also make stage 2 (Ramming) take longer.

As for head bobbing/Freelook during Reloading, this could also be incorporated into the system:

People have talked about fumbling etc, they could make it so it is possible to free-look during the reload Animation (but in a far smaller arc than normally) but if you were to do this it'd increase the chance of your character doing something that either

A.) makes the process take longer

B.) Messes up the process entirely (like losing powder and having an underpowered shot, dropping the percussion Cap and the Gun not going off when Fired).

If the above happened, in my system you'd need to re-do stage 3 (put the Cap on again). Freelook might be a bit of a stretch though, I imagine the Reload process would probably require full concentration and as Murray says, the interim time between stages is when you'd look around.


With the systems in place the reward for those who just stand there and do the full normal Reload process would be a very reduced rate of fouling of Weapon along with the knowledge your Gun will fire every time. The reward for those who use the staggered system competently would be the above plus improved situational awareness along with the ability to just do the extra stages of their Reload elsewhere if enemies came near.



*Also, if you've voted as having your own ideas on this, by all means put your own concept/idea down in this thread.

[Dman979]

There's a difference between "realistic" and "real." War of Rights is looking to provide a realistic game, not a real battlefield.

In a real battlefield, there are any number of reasons my gun might not work- wet powder, fouling, not aiming, double loading- all of which would be major annoyances in a realistic game. Why? Because I'm not fighting a real war. I expect a fun experience when I play a game, not random (or seemingly random) events that keep me from doing what I want to.

Additionally, there's the development load to consider. Something like this will require a substantial reworking of the animation and reloading systems, time which could probably be better spent on other aspects of development- say, for example, melee.

Best,
Dman979

[MadWolf]

WoR is a game that i really like to play for the simple reason that it is a game where you have to work together as a team rather than run and gun till you win. But it is still a game and not RL and why for the love of the gods do you want to make reloading a chore.

Ps: pls do not give me the BS reason of it ads to the realistic game play. Pressing more that one button to reload is not doing anything other than frustrate players.

[R21]

It's not so much about realism as it is playability, by about the 8 second mark in the current reload system I think people start finding it a bit tedious (especially after repeatedly doing it). My system would quite literally break up the mundanity :p.

As much as I love the fact they've implemented proper Reloads I think they need this breaking up (even if we don't get 3 stages, maybe just 2). I'm still not entirely sold on random fumbling mistakes, but i'm pretty sure it could be done in a way that there was a degree of control over and in contexts that made sense (like your characters gun being fouled and he himself being injured) making it more likely for some kind of mistake to happen or the Reload take longer).

[Dman979]

It's not so much about realism as it is playability, by about the 8 second mark in the current reload system I think people start finding it a bit tedious (especially after repeatedly doing it). My system would quite literally break up the mundanity :p.


Into... stale, irksome monotony? As you said, people will find any repeated action tedious after a while. Increasing the amount of button-presses needed will only shorten the time to make reloading feel colorless.

All in all, reloading is going to be a slow part of the game. It's going to take time to reload, it's going to annoy some people, and it's going to try players' patience no matter what. It's simply one of the flaws in making a Civil War game in a Shoot-em-up market, and no amount of interactive button pushing will change the fact that preparing to shoot your gun takes 20 seconds.

Best,
Dman979

[R21]

Into... stale, irksome monotony?



No, into choice.

i'll use RO2 and Manual bolting as an example:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KwcAoEKoT7s

(I didn't make this video, and it's kind of crap)

people play more slowly and take less shots with Manual Bolting enabled (and it's an extra click of LMB to get your character to do it but i've never seen anyone on their Forums describe it as a QTE or Button bashing) but overall they tend to play better. The ability to choose the time when to do this actually helps players and the complaints came (as they are here with the Full reload) about your character doing something (bolting) which they had no control over. In RO2 (without it enabled) bolting was an uncontrollable action that your character did straight after firing that took say 1-1.5 seconds, this is literally x15 or so in WOR with the current Reload.

Manual Bolting is left as optional to the Player, but in-Game you can't have the systems standing side by side. In WOR you'd be able to have this, both a non-segmented 'Normal' Reload and the Segmented Reload side by side, so if you really hated the system that much you could totally ignore it by just holding R to do the full uninterrupted Reload.

I realise WOR is breaking new ground (can't really think of any other Games where pretty much every Unit has such a long Reload process) and I feel a staggered/segmented Reload process might be part of this evolution. If done right, it'd be a really good feature that added to the Game, that's my honest opinion on it.







As you said, people will find any repeated action tedious after a while.



It's already found to be slightly tedious, and I stand by what I said about my system breaking up the mundanity :p

[David Dire]

So your defense for manual bolting, and thus reloading QTEs for WoR, is basically just an oversighted abusable glitch?

What a good thing to back your point up with. If I was a game dev, I would rather stop selling my game completely than add something as pointless as a reloading QTE.

[R21]

Could you be a bit more courteous in your responses please David, it's like you're being flippant and negative just for the sake of being so with some.

Manual Bolting:

Really small feature that adds to the Game immensley was actually my point. There are loads of Riflemen on both sides in servers and in WOR pretty much every class is going to be using a similar Weapon with a similar mechanism and Reload time.

[Southern]

not sure how to vote on this, but i like the 3 segments of reloading

[McMuffin]

I've already voiced my opinions, and I don't think anyone can actually change his opinion which is fine, he is standing by his suggestion and it's good. People just don't think (myself included) that adding a button clicking reloading system will actually help with the reloading monotony, it is annoying and boring and it's not supposed to nor does it have to be entertaining, reloading is just a boring thing all around. And as it was said earlier, this game is a realistic game, not a real-life simulator game, if I wanted that I'd do reenacting. Adding in the possibilty of jamming multiple rounds in or something like that. And people regularly won't waste ammo because they are waiting for orders or know the reloading is tedious as all hell. I guarantee you if you add a system like this, people are gonna just get frustrated over and over and the system will become a hated thing because it takes monotony that is pretty bearable, and turns it into simple looking 3 button system, but something that can mess up your rifle like character injuring fouling or something. That's just NOT fun.

[Miller A.T. SeaBreach]

Yea +1, would love to see this.

[[1stTX.H] Long]

Nope please

[Fypear]

i'd like to see that you have to reload your rifles your own, indeed in the correct formation offcourse, this will make the game more realistic. you can be a faster reloader then others and if your good at it you have can get a higher rate of fire, really would like to see this indeed.. but don't want more hud in the game, you just have to learn how to reload and don't forget it again

[Sox]

I like the idea, but for this to work I think it would need to be optional with the added question ''is this trying to over complicate matters''? David Dire is correct, loading a musket is not a complicated matter, and in my experience the only 'fumbles' I've ever had in battle have been with the cap. I voted yes, but that's a very personal choice as I think that this would put a lot of players off the game. So yes, but only if it's made optional.

[Reznikov12]

https://www.warofrightsforum.com/showthread.php?2191-Reloading-Variations&p=36934#post36934 my opinion and concept of segmented reloading.

[cheeyeah]

that is cool and professional,,,,,
I hope that the action of loading the ammunition can be divided into several effective pieces, so that the whole action will be more natural and less mechanical.
Therefore, the idea of supporting the building owner +1 :D
can simplify the loading process and control the three sub-processes.

[Drew Dubious]

seems very out of place. honestly, I think if they just took that awful hand switch with the ramrod out all together reloading would be less painful.

[buzznfl]

I would like the segmented reload just to be able to react to charges from the enemy when in wooded areas or corn fields. You start your reload and are basically frozen. Easy kill for the enemy. That’s not very realistic when you add cannon barrages and Calvary charges. If I have to start the reload all over that’s ok. But I should be able to move, retreat or defend myself in melee mode.

[TrustyJam]

I would like the segmented reload just to be able to react to charges from the enemy when in wooded areas or corn fields. You start your reload and are basically frozen. Easy kill for the enemy. That’s not very realistic when you add cannon barrages and Calvary charges. If I have to start the reload all over that’s ok. But I should be able to move, retreat or defend myself in melee mode.

You can cancel the reload by pressing R.

- Trusty

[Vulcarin]

You can cancel the reload by pressing R.

- Trusty

Hi Trusty,
Do you all plan on eventually adding the ability for your rifle to "remember" where it was in reload? ex. I'm about to place my brass cap in and I hit R to cancel reload, in real life when I go back to my reload I would only need to add brass cap and good to go but in game I have to start the whole loading process over.

[TrustyJam]

Hi Trusty,
Do you all plan on eventually adding the ability for your rifle to "remember" where it was in reload? ex. I'm about to place my brass cap in and I hit R to cancel reload, in real life when I go back to my reload I would only need to add brass cap and good to go but in game I have to start the whole loading process over.

Hello. :)

It's been on our wishlist for a good few years now so yeah eventually - probably.

- Trusty

[Poorlaggedman]

I often find myself weighing the benefit of canceling a reload when being rushed. It'd be great if the interruption triggered automatically when you go to move. I suppose there'd have to be two animations to resume to in standing and kneeling, either back to ramming or priming.

[Bivoj]

It is annoying to cancel the reload at the very end of the process to resume the whole process again. Segmented reloading would be a nice addition.

[buzznfl]

Thanks for the response Trusty! Didn't realize it I was able to cancel the reload. Not sure what you all are doing in Denmark with gaming but keep up the good work! Two of my favorite games (War of Rights and Heroes and Generals) are both produced there. :p

[Kidkummbara]

I think this is a really cool idea at first, but when you are actually in battle the vast majority of people wouldn't want this type of system. It has the same problem that the current animations have, its cool for the first X number of shots but then it would just get tiresome. The current animation only system makes sense too, solders were drilled in the 9-step reload until it became so ingrained in their head it was something you would do without thinking. Speaking on the original idea, not segmented reloads.

[NickGyver]

Manual reloading would add SO MUCH to this game - successful regiments would be those who could achieve the highest rate of fire. As it stands now, everyone has the same reload speed/animation, so essentially it's whoever can spam R the fastest.

My idea(s):

System 1 - Have keys for each segment of reloading (NOT QTE, but rather the player has to successfully click on the keys corresponding to the next segment of reloading - the reload process will not proceed until he does so).

System 2 - During the reload process, enable the mouse icon (perhaps the stylized black-and-white 19th century hand icon we see in the menu) to appear, and players would actually be able to manipulate their weapon by clicking/sliding on the weapon throughout the reload process.

Just my .02 cents.

[DONT TREAD ON ME]

Made a Video on it:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fQ5DXDg8gok&feature=youtu.be

I think it's a reasonably solid system, with Decent UI Artwork and a bit of testing it'd be a feature that'd add a lot to the overall Game imo.




Good video. This is how I'd love to have it in game.

[Rithal]

Either hitting "R" to continue the reload when an on screen prompt appears or hitting "1, 2" and "3" in the correct order could work well for this system. Something like this would do a lot to separate War of Rights from other games.

[A. P. Hill]

Not a big fan of any sort of QTE concept. I do like being able to interrupt the process on my own, and being able to pick up where that process left off ...

This being key.


... but I'm not interested in following a series of prompts to perform a simple reload. Slight speed bonus to those 'In Formation' and 'Skirmishing' and call it a day.

I respectfully disagree.

Having to "reload by the number", (or letter,) would be representative of actual historical fact.

This would provide several unique aspects to the game representing the accuracy the developers claim they want to portray in game.

It will "force" players to try to remember where they were in the sequence when they interrupted the reload process.

It will cause players to practice more intently maybe.

It will reflect history where they have found rifles on the field where multiple unfired charges jammed the weapon. A routine in programming could recognize this and provide one of two results.

The team that has the most members recalling where they were in the process will put the most lead down range. Making for a more "balanced and competitive" experience.

[Gabol]

What's the point of overcomplicating it? First thing needed is a segmented reloading just for the sake of not losing your reload progress when you have to cancel a reload where you only have to put a primer on.
Then, an overcomplicated system depending on morale supression and where you may be looking may or may not be implemented, possibly it could be a server setting, is it as worth it as simply the mechanic of being able to reload from the point where you left it? Not quite.

[Sox]

This being key.



I respectfully disagree.

Having to "reload by the number", (or letter,) would be representative of actual historical fact.

This would provide several unique aspects to the game representing the accuracy the developers claim they want to portray in game.

It will "force" players to try to remember where they were in the sequence when they interrupted the reload process.

It will cause players to practice more intently maybe.

It will reflect history where they have found rifles on the field where multiple unfired charges jammed the weapon. A routine in programming could recognize this and provide one of two results.

The team that has the most members recalling where they were in the process will put the most lead down range. Making for a more "balanced and competitive" experience.

Well this is not 'historical fact' , it's a game. It has to find the middle ground between what was real, and what is manageable/fun in an FPS game. As Bradley quite correctly pointed out, double charging was a fact of Civil War combat, as was tap loading, it's a very slippery slope once you start down the 'historical fact' road. Practicing load in nine times is just a waste of time, because you simply can't get better, you can't improve on pressing the R key. We already spend the majority of our time in combat staring at our muskets, adding to that won't make WoR more 'unique', it'll just make it dull.

[Walt]

You wouldn't want to jam more gun powder & ball into the barrel after having already done so. This proposal makes a lot sense on many levels.

[Salty Devil]

Segmented reloading: YES PLEASE!!!!

QTE: PLEASE NO!!!!

[Korvyr]

Segmented reloading: YES PLEASE!!!!

QTE: PLEASE NO!!!!

I'm with this guy. Just because something brings an aspect of historical accuracy, realism, or simulation does not make it any less of a game or any less enjoyable. It's how these things are applied to a game that make it enjoyable. It's about balance.

I voted yes for segmented reloading, if only because I hate having to cancel my reload due to a charge and then having to start all over again.

At the very least have the reload continue on as intend unless something else stops it, and then you can resume your reload where you left off if you did have to break off for one reason or another.

Edit: I also like the idea of double-loads for CQB.

[Quaker]

May I propose making it optional?

Just tick a box for Segmented Loading and those who want to utilise it can while those who are happy with the current system retain it.

[Korvyr]

May I propose making it optional?

Just tick a box for Segmented Loading and those who want to utilise it can while those who are happy with the current system retain it.

I like the idea simply for the chance to break reload and not have to restart the entire process once you begin reloading again. If it turns into QTEs, then yes, please give an option to disable it. x.x

[Landree]

Definitely need segmented reloading. It's a pain in the ass thinking you were done reloading at the end of putting on the cap and then realizing you moved too soon and you have to repeat the WHOLE thing over again. I also think you should be able to reload when on the move, though definitely hindered. Not in double time, but in quick time.

Also, could there be a better sense of snapping the rifle into position with a cheek-weld and having the sights align at the front-sight rather than having that feeling where there is a balloon tied to the end of the buttstock and you're trying to wrestle the rifle into position? It can be frustrating trying to aim at a target only a few yards away and having insane difficulty in just gathering a sight picture.

[Leifr]

Definitely need segmented reloading. It's a pain in the ass thinking you were done reloading at the end of putting on the cap and then realizing you moved too soon and you have to repeat the WHOLE thing over again. I also think you should be able to reload when on the move, though definitely hindered. Not in double time, but in quick time.

Also, could there be a better sense of snapping the rifle into position with a cheek-weld and having the sights align at the front-sight rather than having that feeling where there is a balloon tied to the end of the buttstock and you're trying to wrestle the rifle into position? It can be frustrating trying to aim at a target only a few yards away and having insane difficulty in just gathering a sight picture.

You shouldn't be able to move or cancel the reload after a certain point, it was applied in the one of the latest patches.

[John Jones]

You shouldn't be able to move or cancel the reload after a certain point, it was applied in the one of the latest patches.

It's definitely applied - it got me killed last night. I couldn't move away from a Federal bayonet as I had gone past the critical point of the load. Its a horrible feeling for those few seconds knowing there's literally nothing you can do :(

[TrustyJam]

It's definitely applied - it got me killed last night. I couldn't move away from a Federal bayonet as I had gone past the critical point of the load. Its a horrible feeling for those few seconds knowing there's literally nothing you can do :(

You can cancel your reload at any time by pressing R. The reason for the blocking of the movement keys the last final moments of the reload is to counter players wanting to move as soon as their reload is done which can result in them moving just before the reload is done which will reset the entire thing. :)

- Trusty

[John Jones]

Hmmm. Maybe I was glitched. I was spamming the R key for all it was worth to cancel the reload but to no avail. I'll have to try it out in a less hectic setting.

[Curbe]

I think segmented reloading would become dull if it was split more than loading and placing a cap. That could also open the option of recapping instead of having to repeat a reload to troubleshoot a failure to fire.

[Gavsky]

You can cancel your reload at any time by pressing R.

That makes sense, wish I'd known about it before!

Reloading is a balance between historical reality and game playability. You could introduce all manner of segments to re-loading and make it too realistic to the point of not being fun. I like the idea of the reload animation giving you a sense of how slow it can be, but you can cancel in an emergency. That would seem to be the right balance right to me.