I have an Exotic Idea! Realistic Armys??? Say what!

[Toland]

I come from the world of Mount and Blade, and as I've seen there are a lot of my fellow folk on this Forum. The reason I say that Is because I have a crazy idea involving what I wish Regimental battles were like in M&B.

This Idea, in my mind is a continuation in further depth of SgtRithal's idea of Army Organization and I highly recommend you take a look at his post.
Here's a link! http://www.warofrightsforum.com/showthread.php?457-Army-Organization


The Problem in M&B


If any of y'all know how Regimental battles work in M&B, its Regiments vs Regiments, Where the battles often in my experience are unorganized, and chaotic, where most Regiments don't work together, unless there is a coalition of Regiments working together.

Now back to the Regiments. In all Regiments there is a huge hierarchical system, in which the Colonel (or leader or Regiment) is the supreme overlord of all!!! Under him follows his lessor ranked Men like his Junior officers and then the Nco's all the way down to the lowest ranker. Usually those ranks below his Junior officers have no chance to prove themselves or have any chance to lead, unless they stay in the regiment for a long time to achieve a officer rank or alternatively which can be expensive, start their own regiment.

The solution


Now my Idea is instead of Regiments vs Regiments, Where the Colonel leads the junior officers who in turn lead the Nco's and in turn lead the lesser ranks. Is imagine where it's Army vs Army, and the Colonel is the General, who leads the entire army, so he is the supreme leader of all Regiments! But who would lead the Regiments? Well my Friends, the leaders of those Regiments, I guess would fall upon those Junior officers! See where I'm going here?????? So in turn the leaders of those companies that make up a regiment, would be the Nco's. And then the leaders of the Platoons that make up a Company would be lead by a lessor ranker, and so on and forth. So in a sense everyone would have a chance to lead and have some what a position of control and influence on the battlefield.

Here are some questions and answer's I'm sure y'all would want answered.

The biggest question I'm sure that y'all will ask is how would this even work? Well what I imagine is that in the game there would be a headquarters on the map where the General would be Located and has a overview of the Entire Battlefield. When the General wants to give an order or make a decisive move that could turn the tide of a Battle, he would go to his General's Pavilion( Stick with me guys) and maybe look at a map almost like in Rome total war or Attila total war where you can switch to the tactical map mode in which he could move his already pre-ordered battle-lines around. And once The General made a decision a AI courier would deliver that order, and the Commander who receives that order, say a Regimental Commander got it. He would have the decision to decline or accept it, because maybe he see's a better option, and remember battles don't always go to plan. So in turn if the Regimental Commander accepts the order, the courier from the General would relay the decision made by the commander back to the General. Then the Regimental Commander would turn his attention to sending that order to his company's.

A big factor is who would be the basic ranker's who make up those units? Well it would fall to the AI, and I'm Imagining that there will be AI in the game and If not then it completely destroys this Idea.

Also another question what I feel people will ask is what if people don't want to command? Well my answer is that they may Remain and play Respectively as a Ranker listening to the commands of a superior.

Biggest thing I wanna Say!

Keep in mind If this were to happen I would assume this would be its own Game mode just for competitive Army's(Regiments) where players want to have that realistic historical Battlefield Atmosphere where there is huge battles! I also want to comment on SgtRithal's post because he in a sense inspired me to make this post, but I want to say that it is unrealistic to have that many actual people playing, but then again to comment to those who responded to just having it like old NW with small regiments I personally don't think it would be fun just to have that NW atmosphere where there's only 200 people either, I feel like this game can be wonderful, and pushed beyond its limits and create a new Generation of gaming and I feel like the Cry Engine has that capabilities to accomplish this, and that this Team has the capabilities to make that happen!

I have many more Idea's that I want to implement and express upon, but I've made this post long enough!

I also wanna thank the people who read this entire post I really appreciate it, and I welcome criticism. I believe that this Idea is achievable and I welcome any new ideas to add on to this.
Once again Thanks Guys!

[Rithal]

Well first, I'd like to thank you for liking my original post. I feel it was something that needed to be brought up on the forum.

I agree that the game will be much less enjoyable if people just stick with the old "NW" way of doing things. I believe the developers agree with me, that this is a completely different game and former NW players should be open to change; Change, in my opinion, that is for the better.

Your mention of the AI was the only issue with your post, considering it has been announced that AI will have no place in the game, however I don't see why players couldn't take the role of the rankers in each regiment as well as the dozens of officers that make up each army.

This is completely unrelated, but I believe we are actually friends on steam. XD I'm not exactly sure how you got there or where we met though. I would assume probably on NW or PW.

Welcome to the forum.

[[RG]Chewie]

I would love to see a courier system where you have to have open lines of travel IE no enemies between the general and his brigade. If you don't the chances of the courier getting through go down. As far as the map mode goes i would love to see an historically correct map where the general can click on a position and send an order out.

[Brother_Padre]

The Union Army Linebattles in the North and South mod for NW are already done like this, there are 4 Divisions, each split into 2 Brigades. Each Brigade holds a selection of Regiments. In the Linebattles one Division will fight another. The Division Commander is on whisper or in the same channel as his Brigade Commanders so he can give them orders, in turn the Brigade Commanders are on whisper with the Leaders of their Brigades Regiments. This way the battles are organised and Regiments work together and Support each other rather than the 'running around like headless chickens' of NW linebattles. As War of Rights will be the 'Spiritual Successor' to NaS for many people, the Union Army will transfer over too WoR and with them, their event organisation.

The Union Army currently boasts over 1,000 members, which will grow significantly when WoR comes out. The Army is made up of 41 Regiments in 9 Brigades in 5 Divisions. Each Brigade and Division has its General and Staff (not too forget Signal Sergeants :p). Contact me on steam if you want to know anymore. My steam is: [20thME] Brother_Padre or http://steamcommunity.com/id/BrotherPadre/

[Toland]

Sir if you're responding to my post, then you have completely misunderstood the point of my post, and plus I responded to the point of Coalitions or "Union Army" in NW or NAS. My biggest point I was trying to make is I hope this won't turn into Mount and Blade! This is it's own game and should not be just limited to just old Mount and blade! Those features I mentioned are features that I believe are very unique and would make this game stand out if they were to adopt something among those lines. And plus you completely misunderstood the meaning of my organization. The point of it was to allow, I guess you could say a small Regiment from NW or NAS to have the Capabilities to go against larger regiments, but instead of it Relying on how many people are in a Regiment you supplement that with AI. But not only does it give smaller Regiments the chance to be Great, it also allows lessor ranked troops to have the ability to have minor commands if they Desire, and most people I've meet in the NW community who are active in Regiments want to Lead! This gives everyone a chance to prove themselves without having to stay in the Regiment for six months just to gain a Nco rank! This demolishes people's frustration of never having the chance to lead ever, and if you have never noticed this frustration with in a Regiment, then you must of not cared!

[TrustyJam]

Thank you for the suggestion - was nice to read.

Have no fear in terms of WoR turning into a M&B clone, we have no intention of that. Yes, Hinkel is part of the team but that doesn't mean what you'll see is a North and South 2. :)

- Trusty

[Brother_Padre]

Sir if you're responding to my post, then you have completely misunderstood the point of my post, and plus I responded to the point of Coalitions or "Union Army" in NW or NAS. My biggest point I was trying to make is I hope this won't turn into Mount and Blade! This is it's own game and should not be just limited to just old Mount and blade! Those features I mentioned are features that I believe are very unique and would make this game stand out if they were to adopt something among those lines. And plus you completely misunderstood the meaning of my organization. The point of it was to allow, I guess you could say a small Regiment from NW or NAS to have the Capabilities to go against larger regiments, but instead of it Relying on how many people are in a Regiment you supplement that with AI. But not only does it give smaller Regiments the chance to be Great, it also allows lessor ranked troops to have the ability to have minor commands if they Desire, and most people I've meet in the NW community who are active in Regiments want to Lead! This gives everyone a chance to prove themselves without having to stay in the Regiment for six months just to gain a Nco rank! This demolishes people's frustration of never having the chance to lead ever, and if you have never noticed this frustration with in a Regiment, then you must of not cared!

Calm down buddy, I was just pointing out that something very similar already occurs in M&B and I was wondering if you had heard of it. Also, I'm afraid your idea would turn into people claiming regiments where it would just be them alone leading a 'regiment' of AI. Ideally, I see what you're getting at about giving smaller regiments a chance but sadly it would just encourage small regiments to be created. This wouldn't be as fun for regiments who have put the effort in recruiting as many actual people as possible. Luckily I have never come across frustration too lead as I've always been in regiments that give that chance to people. I have lead the 20th Maine in North and South for about a year. We used to have 5 man lines and now we're pushing through to 20. We have never been one of the 'big' regiments but we have fought against some and numbers isn't always the best against skill. You just need to understand that linebattles will be dictated by the leaders of big communities such as the UA and DA in NaS.

And, Trusty, I said 'spiritual' successor, implying that many NaS and NW people would carry over to WoR like they did too MM from Battlegrounds a long time ago. I know, and hope, that it wont be NaS2 but many people will carry over their communities and regiments. I hope you understand what I mean :)

[TrustyJam]

We sure hope organized groups such as yours indeed will make WoR their new home when we launch. We're also going to make sure, however, that the feeling well organized gameplay brings is possible to achieve in WoR.

@Toland Group play is very much a main focuspoint for us. There's a time and place for headless chickens (you will encounter it in WoR too for sure) but it's not going to get you very far in terms of achieving your objectives.

- Trusty

[Toland]

Yes that is true there is some balancing needed if it truly was considered, but my biggest fear is the there will only be two Regiments. The Confederate Army and Union Army! That would completely Devastate me because it doesn't allow Minor people to Influence the game. But it would be nice just to have a Field Report describing the Devs Idea's on what they had in mind for these massive unit battles. Because from my understanding a lot of people wanna know how they work. Personally I believe that there should be some balance and new ideas to achieve a realistic battles with thousands of people playing but still it won't happen due to a smaller player base so to solve that problem the easiest solution in my mind would be to use AI, even though the Devs said there will be no AI, I'd hope they would change their mind. Also keep in mind I'm not upset I'm just super excited because this could become my dream game! I mean no harm. :D

[Rithal]

I have been, and always will be in favor of a dedicated system of organization that goes through the game, and is set up by the developers or some sort of admin group.

The way this idea would be acted upon in game is, when you create a character, you can either randomly be assigned a regiment, or you can choose a regiment. When this happens, you start as enlisted soldier. You can be promoted through enlisted ranks by a superior officer. When one officer decides it is the time to promote an enlisted man, over half of the other regimental officers can approve of the promotion, and then the enlisted man can either accepts the promotion, or choose to stay at a low rank. The same could work for demoting, except the soldier could not choose to stay at his current rank at that point XD.

I'm not really sure how officers would work with this idea, but its just a thought.

Regarding the North and South regiments, its great that ya'll like to keep things organized, but I would like a system of that kind of organization on an official level rather than being run independently of other regiments that don't want to join a big group like that.

I also would hope that if there was a courier system in place, everyone would use it rather than just using whisper in teamspeak. Teamspeak would really put you at an advantage over opposing units and I frown upon its use as a communication tool in War of Rights.

I hope everyone has seen what I'm trying to get at here. Basically, I want a realistic army organization and ranking system that is built into the game, rather than left up to the community. This allows regiments to grow bigger, and be a more realistic size. It also allows for a "no-drama" atmosphere that is very scarce in mount and blade.

[GeorgeCrecy]

I hope everyone has seen what I'm trying to get at here. Basically, I want a realistic army organization and ranking system that is built into the game, rather than left up to the community. This allows regiments to grow bigger, and be a more realistic size. It also allows for a "no-drama" atmosphere that is very scarce in mount and blade.

Aww, but we want drama! ;)
To be more serious, we have mentioned our wanting to support local VOIP, or something along those lines. Secondly, we are also wanting to encourage as much group gameplay as possible, again keeping to the realism of the era and its tactics. That could possibly mean that Colonels from the NW world would need to understand that they wont always be the "headiest" honcho anymore in a game like this.
In any case, some great discussions and suggestions here, keep it up!

[Historical Player]

Aww, but we want drama! ;)
To be more serious, we have mentioned our wanting to support local VOIP, or something along those lines. Secondly, we are also wanting to encourage as much group gameplay as possible, again keeping to the realism of the era and its tactics. That could possibly mean that Colonels from the NW world would need to understand that they wont always be the "headiest" honcho anymore in a game like this.
In any case, some great discussions and suggestions here, keep it up!

You mean I won't be the absolute no question leader of the army anymore? I thought my orders were to go unquestioned? =D I would love to see a way that the game could help out the small regiments and make the battles bigger so that 4 regiments can't hog up all the members. *Cough 26th NC*Cough* =D

[Octavian360]

Aww, but we want drama! ;)
That could possibly mean that Colonels from the NW world would need to understand that they wont always be the "headiest" honcho anymore in a game like this.


This is great to hear, honestly kinda turned off by all these NW and N&S people coming to this forum and assuming they can take over the community because they see the two games "similiar". Reading in the forum that the N&S cult want to bring their system over here and basically make this a N&S2 kinda makes me afraid for the games life if there isnt an in-game organizational system setup by the Developers.

[Rithal]

This is great to hear, honestly kinda turned off by all these NW and N&S people coming to this forum and assuming they can take over the community because they see the two games "similiar". Reading in the forum that the N&S cult want to bring their system over here and basically make this a N&S2 kinda makes me afraid for the games life if there isnt an in-game organizational system setup by the Developers.

I love you... :) <3

[Hinkel]

This is great to hear, honestly kinda turned off by all these NW and N&S people coming to this forum and assuming they can take over the community because they see the two games "similiar". Reading in the forum that the N&S cult want to bring their system over here and basically make this a N&S2 kinda makes me afraid for the games life if there isnt an in-game organizational system setup by the Developers.

As the developer of NaS, I have to say, I don't like a 1:1 port too.
The system fits for NaS, yes .. but for War of Rights, we are heading into a different direction and its needed to get a change! The community has to accept it ;)

[Historical Player]

As the developer of NaS, I have to say, I don't like a 1:1 port too.
The system fits for NaS, yes .. but for War of Rights, we are heading into a different direction and its needed to get a change! The community has to accept it ;)

The world needs change, but we can start with War of Rights! :)

[Toland]

As the developer of NaS, I have to say, I don't like a 1:1 port too.
The system fits for NaS, yes .. but for War of Rights, we are heading into a different direction and its needed to get a change! The community has to accept it ;)

I'm really curious to find out what y'all have in mind, from the organization point of view of how it's really gonna work in game. As in is it gonna be a in-game organization set up by the Devs like Octavian said, or are you gonna allow the players to have the freedom to set it up out of game. Or just in general what you have planed, hope you can leak a little info on this. ;)

[Bravescot]

As the developer of NaS, I have to say, I don't like a 1:1 port too.

My only worry is that the General and you devs won't see eye to eye about porting. I strongly oppose the 1:1 port that is being driven by UA and DA members alike. In my own little selfish way I want to UA to stumble to I can swoop in and save the day ;). The main issue is that the commanders have dug themselves and do no wish to loose power that they've gained.

[Octavian360]

My only worry is that the General and you devs won't see eye to eye about porting. I strongly oppose the 1:1 port that is being driven by UA and DA members alike. In my own little selfish way I want to UA to stumble to I can swoop in and save the day ;). The main issue is that the commanders have dug themselves and do no wish to loose power that they've gained.

You are coming from a completely different game the Devs do not need to hold your community's hand nor give you any sort of power. This is the exact attitude I discussed a few posts above its ridiculous. This game is going to be nothing like N&S, there should be no special treatment to that community due to a Dev being on the team from that mod.

[Bravescot]

You are coming from a completely different game the Devs do not need to hold your community's hand nor give you any sort of power. This is the exact attitude I discussed a few posts above its ridiculous. This game is going to be nothing like N&S, there should be no special treatment to that community due to a Dev being on the team from that mod.

I fully agree with you is what I'm saying! Jezz calm thou thy tits, "I strongly oppose the 1:1 port" my own words.

[88thNY_InFaMY]

Planetside 2 does it just fine have different voice channels that can only be accessed by someone with the right rank or what not.

[William]

I like the idead but i think 100% there so soo mutch guys who are not fit enough to lead or stuff like that i think if you make like a officer School.....okay....but i think it will end in a big Camping or what so every because noboddy wants to get killed .... so they fight for they owne glory not for there Team or such stuff i don´t know if i said it right my english grammer is shit xD

[Rithal]

I like the idead but i think 100% there so soo mutch guys who are not fit enough to lead or stuff like that i think if you make like a officer School.....okay....but i think it will end in a big Camping or what so every because noboddy wants to get killed .... so they fight for they owne glory not for there Team or such stuff i don´t know if i said it right my english grammer is shit xD

I got the idea :D I do agree that this is something we need to consider.

[Octavian360]

It would be really awesome if there was an in-game mechanic tutorial or school for NCO and Officer for their respective duties in the line or in cavalry (if implemented).

[Historical Player]

I would like to see nice orderly combat, but that will be hard to achieve.

[Bravescot]

Public play on this is going to be one massive ass cluster fuck of fun :rolleyes:

[FancyPants]

The part where you mentioned everyone would move up, kind of made no sense at all. you still need Enlisted men to fill the ranks.. Also the problem with this is still the problem they have in N&S and NW. Regiment leaders don't want to give their regiment away for some other guy that thinks he knows what he's doing to lead. If you build your regiment from the ground up and you put all the time and effort into it you don't want some guy just coming in and telling you what to do with your men.

However, I do agree that some form of organized historical combat would be fun. (If the servers can support the amount of players needed for it)

[Rithal]

The part where you mentioned everyone would move up, kind of made no sense at all. you still need Enlisted men to fill the ranks.. Also the problem with this is still the problem they have in N&S and NW. Regiment leaders don't want to give their regiment away for some other guy that thinks he knows what he's doing to lead. If you build your regiment from the ground up and you put all the time and effort into it you don't want some guy just coming in and telling you what to do with your men.

However, I do agree that some form of organized historical combat would be fun. (If the servers can support the amount of players needed for it)

Well the idea is that the battles will be much bigger, and there will be a much larger playerbase than NW and NaS, so there will hopefully be plenty of players to fill the enlisted ranks.