Maybe it's time for Admins?

[Sox]

I understand CG's stance on banning players, and on players being reported, but maybe it's time for a rethink. Since WoR went to phase 2 the amount of pure racism has reached plague proportions, not a day has passed without some lunatic spewing bile running up and down our lines. We shoot them, we put them on ignore, but they persist. Now besides the obvious ramifications of this, given the current social climate, it's only a matter of time before someone puts one of these moments on YouTube and we all, and the game, get tarred with the same brush. If this is not stopped it's only going to get worse, players have got to be shown that this is NOT acceptable & it will not be tolerated in War of Rights.

Paying any amount of money does not give people the right to behave in this manner, they keep doing it because they're not afraid of being banned, it's time that changed.

[PikeStance]

This is incredibly disappointing to hear. I do not want to play with a bunch of racist bastards.
The best move may be for companies have zero tolerance and you play with only those who have zero tolerance. If it is possible to password protect the servers that are the best solution. The racist idiots can go play with themselves.

[Melonfish]

Admins 100%
People can be arseholes you need that oversight and/ or a vote kick function at the very least.

[LaBelle]

For your guys' stated reasoning, that's where the mute function comes into play. It's why it was added. If and when we add private servers, that's when admins will be implemented I think.

[TrustyJam]

For your guys' stated reasoning, that's where the mute function comes into play. It's why it was added. If and when we add private servers, that's when admins will be implemented I think.

Indeed - we are currently also considering muting the text chat of a muted player.

- Trusty

[Leifr]

Indeed - we are currently also considering muting the text chat of a muted player.

- Trusty

Please.

[Sox]

Indeed - we are currently also considering muting the text chat of a muted player.

- Trusty

It's a step in the right direction I suppose, may I suggest you do something, other than the steps already in place, about repeated team killing as well? We have an Officer who rarely gets a chance to play the game, he's dedicated both to 1st Georgia & to War of Rights, but work keeps him out of the actual game an awful lot. Last night he had a thirty minute window, and a chance to jump into the game. Two players decided, that in addition to constant racist ranting in chat, that they were going to grief our Officer by repeatedly shooting him. As a consequece, we had to spend those thirty minutes defending him from two Confederates, as well as trying to fight the Union, until he just gave up in frustration and left the game. It's not the first time they've done it, and it certainly won't be the last. Putting these idiots on ignore (a function that currently does not work btw) or kicking them off a server for repeated TKing clearly is not going to be enough, they need banning.

[LaBelle]

Name'em and Shame'em. 1st Texas has your back against that kind of shit.

[Melonfish]

It's a step in the right direction I suppose, may I suggest you do something, other than the steps already in place, about repeated team killing as well? We have an Officer who rarely gets a chance to play the game, he's dedicated both to 1st Georgia & to War of Rights, but work keeps him out of the actual game an awful lot. Last night he had a thirty minute window, and a chance to jump into the game. Two players decided, that in addition to constant racist ranting in chat, that they were going to grief our Officer by repeatedly shooting him. As a consequece, we had to spend those thirty minutes defending him from two Confederates, as well as trying to fight the Union, until he just gave up in frustration and left the game. It's not the first time they've done it, and it certainly won't be the last. Putting these idiots on ignore (a function that currently does not work btw) or kicking them off a server for repeated TKing clearly is not going to be enough, they need banning.

Hence the kick vote option, in the absence of admins this would allow a team to vote on kicking morons.
when we finally go early access we'll suffer a fair amount of this I think so it'll be important to have something in place.

[TrustyJam]

Putting these idiots on ignore (a function that currently does not work btw)

Muting does work. It just doesn't mute them in text chat.

We currently have an auto kick system in place for repeated team killing (kicks in at 3 tk's).

In the near future this will be replaced by an auto temp ban system.


There were plenty of idiots the first week or two of the launch of skirmishes as well by the way - they tend to tire out rather quickly - it's only fun to not play a game actively for so long. The same will happen with these ones.


- Trusty

[Melonfish]

Muting does work. It just doesn't mute them in text chat.

We currently have an auto kick system in place for repeated team killing (kicks in at 3 tk's).

In the near future this will be replaced by an auto temp ban system.


There were plenty of idiots the first week or two of the launch of skirmishes as well by the way - they tend to tire out rather quickly - it's only fun to not play a game actively for so long. The same will happen with these ones.


- Trusty

Is that three consecutive TK's on the same player or in a row?
i'm a little concerned now as the old bayonet charge is a popular place for stabbing your team mate by accident be it hit boxes, lag related, or just plain fade/stab happy.

[TrustyJam]

Is that three consecutive TK's on the same player or in a row?
i'm a little concerned now as the old bayonet charge is a popular place for stabbing your team mate by accident be it hit boxes, lag related, or just plain fade/stab happy.

I will not go into specifics with it as knowing the exact numbers can obviously be exploited but it is 3 tk's of any player within a certain period of time.

I've never experienced getting kicked by it when I wasn't tk'ing on purpose nor have I heard others who have been.

- Trusty

[Sox]

Muting does work. It just doesn't mute them in text chat.

We currently have an auto kick system in place for repeated team killing (kicks in at 3 tk's).

In the near future this will be replaced by an auto temp ban system.


There were plenty of idiots the first week or two of the launch of skirmishes as well by the way - they tend to tire out rather quickly - it's only fun to not play a game actively for so long. The same will happen with these ones.


- Trusty

These particular idiots HAVE been here since the launch of skirmishes. Mute does not work, as soon as you get killed, or change maps, it removes the mute. The current auto kick boots them off the server and then they come straight back. It is, however, good to know that at least a temp ban is coming.


Name'em and Shame'em. 1st Texas has your back against that kind of shit.

I was so badly tempted LaBelle I really was, but that could have got me banned so I held off. It's good to know we have you support, so thanks for that :)

[TrustyJam]

Mute does not work, as soon as you get killed, or change maps, it removes the mute.



Thank you for the report, we will investigate as it should be working no matter if you die or change skirmish area - I'd be interested to hear if others are experiencing this.

- Trusty

[Warboy]

This is why I have stopped playing as of late, because ever since the beta release(yes we/I knew this stuff would happen) there's trollers, no shortage of intentional team killers, sound board players playing heavy metal/rap etc and on top of that all the rambos/loonies running around. It's not an organize battle anymore but more of a call of duty free for all(some recruit/kid squeaker taking officer to lead) when you disobey him because you want to follow your own guys he team kills you for insubordination , guy did it to me twice on one map and once on another and rest of the players are just running off on their own. Now as soon as we had one of our organized events on sunday/moday night and organized with the groups(both sides) that we're going into an empty different server it worked ot great nice and organized with all regimental players playing, maybe a few pubs but naturally get in line when they see all of us formed.

P.S. - I only play at the organized events on the weekend now and the only other time I play is to jump in and try to recruit not caring about the outcome of the match.

[Melonfish]

This is why I have stopped playing as of late, because ever since the beta release(yes we/I knew this stuff would happen) there's trollers, no shortage of intentional team killers, sound board players playing heavy metal/rap etc and on top of that all the rambos/loonies running around. It's not an organize battle anymore but more of a call of duty free for all(some recruit/kid squeaker taking officer to lead) when you disobey him because you want to follow your own guys he team kills you for insubordination , guy did it to me twice on one map and once on another and rest of the players are just running off on their own. Now as soon as we had one of our organized events on sunday/moday night and organized with the groups(both sides) that we're going into an empty different server it worked ot great nice and organized with all regimental players playing, maybe a few pubs but naturally get in line when they see all of us formed.

P.S. - I only play at the organized events and the only other time I play is to jump in and try to recruit not caring about the outcome of the match.

I think when we're able to setup our own servers with passwords this shouldn't be a massive issue, the Clan I just left for Arma 3 had similar, a public server where people could rambo and play around, then on certain nights specific games for the unit played properly, sadly it's a fact of modern gaming that goes way back to the 90's when we all started shooting 9" nails at each other and being offensive about each others mother.

-Edit: showing my age there.

[TrustyJam]

This is why I have stopped playing as of late, because ever since the beta release(yes we/I knew this stuff would happen) there's trollers, no shortage of intentional team killers, sound board players playing heavy metal/rap etc and on top of that all the rambos/loonies running around. It's not an organize battle anymore but more of a call of duty free for all(some recruit/kid squeaker taking officer to lead) when you disobey him because you want to follow your own guys he team kills you for insubordination , guy did it to me twice on one map and once on another and rest of the players are just running off on their own. Now as soon as we had one of our organized events on sunday/moday night and organized with the groups(both sides) that we're going into an empty different server it worked ot great nice and organized with all regimental players playing, maybe a few pubs but naturally get in line when they see all of us formed.

P.S. - I only play at the organized events on the weekend now and the only other time I play is to jump in and try to recruit not caring about the outcome of the match.

It will take time for people to get the ropes of the game. I’m sure a fair number of our veteran testers didn’t start out as company leaders the very first skirmish they played.

I understand that the community has been used to seeing a steady flow of new players and not a spike as we had with phase II. As I wrote in the latest field report I do hope the veterans will be able to look past the greeness of the new guys in Phase II as this will be a small spike compared to early access. We are talking day old players still, after all. :)

As stated earlier we are both looking into more muting options as well as changes to our auto punishment system as we realize the need thanks to the feedback from you all.

Calling for passworded servers mere days after new backers have gotten acces is not a good solution at all - it would create a company environment and a forever-newbie environment and effectively split the community in half with a much worse chance at ever learning anything for the new player and thus wanting to join a company.

- Trusty

[Shiloh]

P.S. - I only play at the organized events on the weekend now...

I will not deal with racist remarks, haters and broken people who want to break all the rules, and for that reason I stick to the main events myself. Personally I would appoint 10-20 or so admins (respected community members who have shown good judgment) and give them the ability to toss people off a server and show a zero-tolerance policy.

"We've lost many a good boy taking those hills, and we'll lose many more allowing these people to run rampant over our servers."

~ Anonymous

[Frederick]

This game shouldn't become a testing ground for making sure SJWs don't get their fee fees hurt.

Private servers are the answer.

[Rickie Spanish]

Indeed - we are currently also considering muting the text chat of a muted player.

- Trusty



This is EXACTLY what I was just saying to others the other day. Muting someone should mute them in the chat as well.



But regardless, yes, private servers cant come fast enough. Not even just b/c of this but so organized events can be set up b/t specific parties.

[Rickie Spanish]

It will take time for people to get the ropes of the game. I’m sure a fair number of our veteran testers didn’t start out as company leaders the very first skirmish they played.

I understand that the community has been used to seeing a steady flow of new players and not a spike as we had with phase II. As I wrote in the latest field report I do hope the veterans will be able to look past the greeness of the new guys in Phase II as this will be a small spike compared to early access. We are talking day old players still, after all. :)

As stated earlier we are both looking into more muting options as well as changes to our auto punishment system as we realize the need thanks to the feedback from you all.

Calling for passworded servers mere days after new backers have gotten acces is not a good solution at all - it would create a company environment and a forever-newbie environment and effectively split the community in half with a much worse chance at ever learning anything for the new player and thus wanting to join a company.

- Trusty



We get it, we do and it's fine to fight the community on this now as you said timing is part of a renewed call for it. That said, even if it played out like you said, this isnt the hill for CG to die on, b/c they will. This will always be a huge demand.

[LaBelle]

So, my linebattle community experience began with Battlegrounds 2 and has continued through all the major games. In each and every one of those games, private servers have effectively quarantined the community. Now this has upsides and downsides with the positives being pretty obvious, but I can understand Trusty's hesitation here. The minute we get our private servers is the minute we see these (already present) fault lines between units widen exponentially.

[Kyle422]

I understand where everyone is coming from with private servers. But it’s just not gonna happen no mater much you bring it up right now. There are ups and downs to having them. But for the most part it isolated the community and in my opinion restricts regmental/company recruitment. Because unless a random reads your recruitment thread knows someone that’s in a company it restricts that. At this point we need as many people as possible to test the game and bring everyone together. Look at holdfast it was a good concept but the community was not that great so the game failed in that aspect. So we need to bring the community together have an understanding for everyone. Encourage randoms to join units. Then that’s when I feel private servers should be introduced.

Kyle

[A. P. Hill]

We all have to start somewhere.

And many of us have had to suffer the apparent lack of maturity for quite a while. It takes patience. Many players now in the "accepted category" at one time or another, came here and did the "stupid thing" until it grew old, and stale, then when it wasn't any fun any more it quit. These persons will cool off after time, and we may find that they're actually pretty decent players and may very well end up becoming members of various units.

Sometimes just ignoring persons who would rather be asshat's is the better way to be. :)

[Shiloh]

I'm not convinced on private servers vs. keeping things the way they are now but I know this. There are people running around our servers acting like complete jackasses TK'ing, spewing hate, blowing up the chat and these people should be immediately banned. They are cancerous to this community and people like that may leave at some point, but they will never come around and be 'productive' players. The reputation of this community moving forward will be extremely important with Steam early access coming up and that's when the reviews start hitting Steam and people give a thumbs up or a thumbs down.

Let's take out the garbage before that point and be known as a community that won't put up with that type of player.

[Frederick]

I'm not convinced on private servers vs. keeping things the way they are now but I know this. There are people running around our servers acting like complete jackasses TK'ing, spewing hate, blowing up the chat and these people should be immediately banned. They are cancerous to this community and people like that may leave at some point, but they will never come around and be 'productive' players. The reputation of this community moving forward will be extremely important with Steam early access coming up and that's when the reviews start hitting Steam and people give a thumbs up or a thumbs down.

Let's take out the garbage before that point and be known as a community that won't put up with that type of player.


One benefit of folks 'spewing hate' is keeping out the SJWs with skin thinner than apple skin.

if you don't like 'em, mute 'em.

[Shiloh]

One benefit of folks 'spewing hate' is keeping out the SJWs with skin thinner than apple skin.

if you don't like 'em, mute 'em.

If you're saying I don't have a thick skin then you're mistaken. I have zero tolerance for racism and hatred. Big difference.

Maybe you don't have experience enough to know that cancerous communities have taken down so many games that would otherwise have been successful. I can't speak for anyone but myself but I play games to have fun, not listen to people with major life issues spew hatred. And because I love this game so much I say 'take out the trash' before it stinks up the place enough where people don't want to play anymore.

We all have different tolerance levels to the type of stuff that goes on in games and maybe you accept what people do and just feel that shutting them out of your own headset is the answer. It's not a solution at all. It's ignoring the root problem and that gets us nowhere as a community.

[McMuffin]

If only I could find the many threads about this when Phase I was launched, albeit not as much because of the high price to play. People are idiots and love saying this stuff. It is like how in Holdfast how you have people who blast Hitler speeches and scream 'Sieg Heil' and 'Gas the Jews' when playing as Prussia. When you let a large group of people in, and now that the game is half the price, they're going to see this as another Holdfast since most of them played that and wanted the same meme-y fun because they just like that.

However, notice how you don't see those same people for very long? Notice how the problem, before we had any sort of muting system, just fizzled out when Phase I launched? These people quickly realize that just running around screaming every racial slur under the sun is fun with your friends for about 3-6 hours, then they either clean their act up and join a unit or never show up again. Starting to hand out admins to people on public servers is incredibly risky, and I could not advise more strongly against it, it never works out. Admins on private servers are obviously, and I wholly support it. As for the whole reputation of War of Rights being tarnished, it's a civil war game, and modern day society is modern day society, they see a Confederate flag and immediately assume everyone here are racists, you will not change their mind. While these people (those running around screaming racial slurs) do not exactly help the image of the game, anyone with a brain and a genuine interest in the game and the style of gameplay it provides can see what it is actually going for and can look beyond that when they play an event.

Private servers are always a mixed bag. Many people think that it will cause permanent division throughout the community, and while it can, why not just play both private and community events? It's a simple fix that allows for you to recruit new people and let people see what this game is really capable of, but it still will enable units to conduct their own events with their own enforced rules. For example, if a unit does two events per weekend, do one private, one public. So, while I understand the hesitation to release private servers in the current stage, it will not kill the community if and only if people make an effort to keep it alive but spending time on public servers. However, this very harsh reaction to an incredibly natural problem of a game centered community is not warranted, trust me, give it a month.

The ultimate insult to these people and the ultimate fun-kill for them is to ignore them. Teamkilling them or telling them to stop only makes them do it more, that is the basic operation of a troll.

[Poorlaggedman]

So, my linebattle community experience began with Battlegrounds 2 and has continued through all the major games. In each and every one of those games, private servers have effectively quarantined the community. Now this has upsides and downsides with the positives being pretty obvious, but I can understand Trusty's hesitation here. The minute we get our private servers is the minute we see these (already present) fault lines between units widen exponentially.
As someone who 100% plans on investing heavily into private servers I agree that we have to get the gameplay down good before allowing the clans to make the game their play thing twice a week. The pegs need to line up into the holes first otherwise you're going to have reenacting 3 days week and mediocre gameplay for all but the well-connected and that will essentially be a mix of non-competitive and constant tip-toeing around the rules which are selectively enforced.

Right now everyone is essentially powerless and that's good because we can learn about dealing with trolling more effectively because it's going to be a huge problem if we just start playing whack-a-mole with each troll now.

My advice with trolls is pretty much universal for those without power: Learn how to record. Record trolls. Identify them (open your console and 'listplayers' (we need this feature)) to positively show that player with that steamID, upload it and post it. You can send it to their clanmates or to a server owner or post it on the forums. Pretty simple and extremely effective as long as you identified them in their action and linked that to their steamid.

The funny thing about trolls is sometimes the big organizations will struggle to even police their own servers outside of events because their entire organization is made around events and training meets. They might have powerless privates on but the admins will scarcely be around. Any sign of the host-clan being present elicits a troll's voluntary submission. It's when there are none around that they prey on the powerless players. That's why you need to have 'plain-clothes' admins to both police the public and spy on your own enlisted. It's very difficult for admins to be anonymous, it's not in the nature of most people but it increases their effectiveness ten-fold. I hosted a server for three years but few knew who I even was and many still call me by one of my many aliases I'd play under. By rule, nobody was supposed to know if you were an admin. There were exceptions for the admins who ran events when they ran events but that was it. Admin presence has absolutely got to be anonymous by default, it servers utterly no purpose for a server to declare to the world "Poorlaggedman logged on as admin" as some games will. The only deterrence that works well with trolls is fear and if all they have to do is behave around certain people then they will. I've sat for endless hours in spectate and watched this behavior.

[PikeStance]

I found this on the front page


Community focus
A strong company (player organized clans) focus with a dedicated company tool and forum sections devoted to in-game event creation.


While it may be expedient to welcome any player, in the end, the focus should be on community building. The game is based upon the establishment of companies by the community. As a new player, I am not bothered by "private servers" if it is in the interest of promoting the community for which the game is based. I have not played the game, but I have watched a number of videos. It is a much more impressive game when I see large groups of people coordinating their efforts. The game is far less attractive where players act as individuals. These individuals are not going to promote the game, but, ultimately, inhibit the attraction of the ideal player. Those "individuals" should honestly move on to Assassin's Creed or Grand Theft Auto. If this is what they want in a game, then you should not cater to them, nor care if they like it or not. (cruel but true).

Observation: One thing I noticed is that many times Bayonet charges are not coordinated. It is better off to slow down and stay cohesive than come at the line piecemeal.

[Sox]

One benefit of folks 'spewing hate' is keeping out the SJWs with skin thinner than apple skin.

if you don't like 'em, mute 'em.

This annoys me almost as much as the racism does. It's got nothing to do with 'social justice' it's the difference between plain old right & wrong, 99% of these fools are not even genuine racists, they're just buffons who think that it's funny. For me, personally, the worst thing of all is that they're not even kids, they're grown men. There are NO benefits to 'folks spewing hate'. I've seen my youngest son playing PUBG, Call of Duty & Battlefield, heard the torrents of abuse and racism & I asked him to stop playing those games, why? well NOT because I think he is not thick skinned, but because I never want him to think that kind of behaviour is normal or acceptable.

I've spoken out against private servers quite a lot, I've never wanted to see them. In a little over a week I've changed my mind. Thinking that veteran players are not helping newcomers is naive' in the extreme, starting this thread was not a knee jerk reaction, every example given by players in this thread, I've witnessed the same thing ten fold in the last week. CG have built a very good team game system here, but it does have one huge flaw, NONE team players can very very easily loose you the game, and that will make it a griefers paradise unless players realise that they will get banned. Go look at Holdfasts public servers if you need a prime example of good intentions gone bad.

This was not a call for CG to make private servers, I've never believed they would do that. Someone in this thread suggested CG make some players Admins, well I've seen that work to perfection in WWII Online, but I know that CG will never do that either. Our only hope now, for seeing this game played the way it was in Alpha, will be to make our own private servers once the game is live, and the only way that will work is if we come together, as a community, and make it work.

As an aside I'll just say this. By an amazing coincidence, one of the players griefing our officer on Thursday night had the same name as someone posting in this thread, I'll leave it to you to work out who.

[Frederick]

This annoys me almost as much as the racists do. It's got nothing to do with 'social justice' it's the difference between plain old right & wrong,

that's social justice. attempting to apply your standards of right and wrong. Well, you say it's a matter of right and wrong. I say it's a matter of a bunch of knuckleheads who will grow tired when muted and ignored. When i'm in the supermarket and i'm accosted by some fool, i tell him to F off and i ignore him.



99% of these fools are not even genuine racists, they're just buffons who think that it's funny. For me, personally, the worst thing of all is that they're not even kids, they're grown men.

the worst thing about this whole thread is it's a bunch of adults crying that their feelings have been hurt and they're made to feel uncomfortable because a couple trolls act like fools.


There are NO benefits to 'folks spewing hate'. I've seen my youngest son playing PUBG, Call of Duty & Battlefield, heard the torrents of abuse and racism & I asked him to stop playing those games, why? well NOT because I think he is not thick skinned, but because I never want him to think that kind of behaviour is normal or acceptable.

This is what i mean by being an SJW, you're trying to dictate what you think should be 'acceptable' and 'normal' behaviour. You can keep your child hidden from the reality of the world as long as you want, that's your prerogative, but eventually he's going to grow up and find out that maybe the world isn't all good people. If you don't want your kid to see nasty stuff or be corrupted, then you should probably not give him access to the internet at all, or a very limited access therefore.

You let him play video games where he goes around murdering people and you're worried about some morons being abusive and racist? these are adult games, and they're intended for mature audiences(17+) . So it's not the game-owners job to make sure that underage people can play their mature games. What you do with your kids is your own business, but we're not here to raise your kids.



I've spoken out against private servers quite a lot, I've never wanted to see them. In a little over a week I've changed my mind. Thinking that veteran players are not helping newcomers is naive' in the extreme, starting this thread was not a knee jerk reaction, every example given by players in this thread, I've witnessed the same thing ten fold in the last week. CG have built a very good team game system here, but it does have one huge flaw, NONE team players can very very easily loose you the game, and that will make it a griefers paradise unless players realise that they will get banned. Go look at Holdfasts public servers if you need a prime example of good intentions gone bad.

I play holdfast quite a bit, and i'm aware that there are morons on there blasting their musics and saying things. I hold down P and i mute them. Problem solved. You're a grown man, and this ain't rocket science.

As far as private servers, i think if someone is willing to host it and pay for the servers, they should be able to. The mod team here isn't THAT large and the costs associated with hosting and administrating these servers on the level you're asking for is beyond the capability of such a small team. Private servers are the only way to get the outcome you seek, realistically, IMO.


This was not a call for CG to make private servers, I've never believed they would do that. Someone in this thread suggested CG make some players Admins, well I've seen that work to perfection in WWII Online, but I know that CG will never do that either. Our only hope now, for seeing this game played the way it was in Alpha, will be to make our own private servers once the game is live, and the only way that will work is if we come together, as a community, and make it work.

your server your rules


As an aside I'll just say this. By an amazing coincidence, one of the players griefing our officer on Thursday night had the same name as someone posting in this thread, I'll leave it to you to work out who.

Maybe you should ask that particular officer who actually griefed him, and i think you'll find that you're mistaken. Past association with an individual is not guilt or involvement.

[Poorlaggedman]

The game is far less attractive where players act as individuals. These individuals are not going to promote the game, but, ultimately, inhibit the attraction of the ideal player. Those "individuals" should honestly move on to Assassin's Creed or Grand Theft Auto. If this is what they want in a game, then you should not cater to them, nor care if they like it or not. (cruel but true). Yes but the game is far better if it makes attempts at individuality less successful by design and that's what's good about the current anarchy is it allows those behaviors to be identified without everyone just trying to make the game work correctly. If there were private servers tomorrow people would just gravitate to events to sidestep the existing problems. A better question to ask is "why is a player able to come up behind our line alone and bayonet our flag bearer and two people successfully. Why does the game allow that. *Cough* *Cough* Autosurrender *Cough* *Cough*."

Trolls will be trolls though as long as they get a response. And since you can't train people's responses you have to get rid of the trolls as efficiently as possible

[LaBelle]

You're not going to be able to get anyone to work together with private servers. It doesn't work that way. II Corps will have their server, where they enforce their rules their way, and 42nd Pennsylvania will have theirs, and 1st Texas will have theirs. Pubbies will find which set of rules and enforcers they like and stick to that server. Each unit will hold their own events, or band together with a few other like minded units, and that'll be it. There'll be events where everyone gets together...and then everyone's interpretation of the rules will kick in. And it'll keep happening until units just don't want to play with other units.

That's what private servers do to line battle games.

[Poorlaggedman]

/\ That's why the gameplay has absolutely got to be solid so that the experience is interchangeable between servers and not reliant on admins forcing a particular style of play. The only thing private servers should have to add is forcing players to follow orders on specific organized events. Otherwise players should gravitate to each other for mutual benefit at a bare minimum on any server by necessity and they should see the clear benefit of doing that with or without decent leadership in that damnable officer role.

[Frederick]

You're not going to be able to get anyone to work together with private servers. It doesn't work that way. II Corps will have their server, where they enforce their rules their way, and 42nd Pennsylvania will have theirs, and 1st Texas will have theirs. Pubbies will find which set of rules and enforcers they like and stick to that server. Each unit will hold their own events, or band together with a few other like minded units, and that'll be it. There'll be events where everyone gets together...and then everyone's interpretation of the rules will kick in. And it'll keep happening until units just don't want to play with other units.

That's what private servers do to line battle games.


So, do you propose that Private servers are banned and that only public servers should be permitted?
if a clan/individual wants to run his own server, that's his prerogative, no? it's up to the individual(s) and units to decide what they do with it.

the alternative i would propose would be a volunteer moderator team, overlooked by the game devs. make it neutral of the clans and as professional as possible, with actual guidelines and rules. that would be the most efficient use of resources.

you have to be careful though, because being banned from the public servers is pretty much a game-wide ban. that's a lot of power to put in the hands of folks, who sometimes don't act fairly and take the game too seriously.

for example, someone who would wrongly accuse someone else of griefing without evidence, or make assumptions based on past associations. or perhaps they simply make assumptions without evidence, or have a grudge against an individual. In private servers, this is less of an issue because, well, there are multiple private servers and to each their own.

but in a public-server only game with volunteer mods, that is also open to abuse imo. that's my main concern.

[Sox]

Maybe you should ask that particular officer who actually griefed him, and i think you'll find that you're mistaken. Past association with an individual is not guilt or involvement.

I'm fully aware who was doing the griefing, I was there, I don't need to ask. We took their names and looked them up on Steam, but then you already know that. Thanks for coming here to defend the indefensible, saved me the trouble of having to name and shame anyone. And FYI, my youngest son is 22, he's fully aware of the reality of the world, the assumption that he is a child was yours. I do not make the rules of what is right and wrong, society does, I just happen to agree with them.

[Frederick]

I'm fully aware who was doing the griefing, I was there, I don't need to ask. We took their names and looked them up on Steam, but then you already know that. Thanks for coming here to defend the indefensible, saved me the trouble of having to name and shame anyone. And FYI, my youngest son is 22, he's fully aware of the reality of the world, the assumption that he is a child was yours. I do not make the rules of what is right and wrong, society does, I just happen to agree with them.

i assumed he was a child since you take such interest in his activities online.

I'm not defending anything, i'm saying that you should just mute them and that it's unreasonable to expect a small mod team to properly administrate the servers. We need private servers.

you can write down any names you want, that's your prerogative. that, however , doesn't reflect the accuracy of your accusations.

[Sox]

You're not going to be able to get anyone to work together with private servers. It doesn't work that way. II Corps will have their server, where they enforce their rules their way, and 42nd Pennsylvania will have theirs, and 1st Texas will have theirs. Pubbies will find which set of rules and enforcers they like and stick to that server. Each unit will hold their own events, or band together with a few other like minded units, and that'll be it. There'll be events where everyone gets together...and then everyone's interpretation of the rules will kick in. And it'll keep happening until units just don't want to play with other units.

That's what private servers do to line battle games.

I respectfully disagree. I don't see the need for 'rules' on how to play the game, CG have already taken care of that as far as I'm concerned. The only thing we need to agree on is that we all play together, and since we've been doing that for a long time now, I don't see any reason why that can't continue, no matter what server we play on. The only thing we need to agree on is common decency.

[LaBelle]

So, do you propose that Private servers are banned and that only public servers should be permitted?
if a clan/individual wants to run his own server, that's his prerogative, no? it's up to the individual(s) and units to decide what they do with it.

the alternative i would propose would be a volunteer moderator team, overlooked by the game devs. make it neutral of the clans and as professional as possible, with actual guidelines and rules. that would be the most efficient use of resources.

you have to be careful though, because being banned from the public servers is pretty much a game-wide ban. that's a lot of power to put in the hands of folks, who sometimes don't act fairly and take the game too seriously.

for example, someone who would wrongly accuse someone else of griefing without evidence, or make assumptions based on past associations. or perhaps they simply make assumptions without evidence, or have a grudge against an individual. In private servers, this is less of an issue because, well, there are multiple private servers and to each their own.

but in a public-server only game with volunteer mods, that is also open to abuse imo. that's my main concern.

No, I'm not saying private servers should be banned. I'm saying that the belief that private servers are the be all end all fix to all of these problems is wrong.

[Korvyr]

I'd be happy simply with a muting system that sticks (doesn't get reset after every match) and includes text chat. The rest I'm impartial about honestly, so long as private servers are eventually coming (which they are) for us snobs who enjoy setting up tournaments and competing with other groups upon our own merit.

[Frederick]

No, I'm not saying private servers should be banned. I'm saying that the belief that private servers are the be all end all fix to all of these problems is wrong.


I think they really are, though. you should incentivize people to work together, not force it. events and things are great for that.


I'd be happy simply with a muting system that sticks (doesn't get reset after every match) and includes text chat. The rest I'm impartial about honestly, so long as private servers are eventually coming (which they are) for us snobs who enjoy setting up tournaments and competing with other groups upon our own merit.


agreed

[LaBelle]

I think they really are, though. you should incentivize people to work together, not force it. events and things are great for that.




agreed

We can agree to disagree.

[Frederick]

We can agree to disagree.

a Mexican standoff, then.

9584

[Kyle422]

It is to my understanding, that if you get banned in a public server it is a game wide ban. But as part of the moderator team we do not take banning lightly. Anyone who warrants a ban has to do something very evil.


Kyle

[LaBelle]

It is to my understanding, that if you get banned in a public server it is a game wide ban. But as part of the moderator team we do not take banning lightly. Anyone who warrants a ban has to do something very evil.


Kyle

Like lose as CSA on Burnsides.

[John Cooley]

Like lose as CSA on Burnsides.
LOL or getting lost and separated from your unit in the cornfield.

We went through this before and we will survive it again.
This new influx of Trolls and reemergence of some of the older crop will fare no better than the last.

Certainly, I agree that Locked Servers will be of some help but it should not always be seen as the "Go To - Fix All" solution.

Although it may seem a bit harsh and evil on the surface ...
I am gratified to see the Community policing its own, in-game.

When encountering these idiots I switch my IFF (Identification, Friend or Foe) off.
I, for one, will happily continue to TK any racist or music blaring half wit until they all have learned that their infantile antics will not be tolerated by either side.

Happy Hunting, all!

[Melonfish]

Ah see i'm only seeing this for the first time as I was a moron and only pledged as a 2nd Lieutenant, so i'm part of the new batch.
I think self policing will help, i mean we can deal with trolls and racists like they dealt with ceasar, we all stick in the bayonet so no one person can get kicked...
Which ones Burnsides btw? i'm still learning all the maps.

[Pronewb]

Vote kick option would be nice. But have to deal with vote spammers as well

[sal_tuskin]

well FREDERICK i see you are now back and doing the same shit as before you little kids will never learn lol and undercover as a co of a csa company you have been kicked out of other companies and you will get kicked out of this game sooner or later, i was just sad i was not on the other nite as i have been working alot but i feel our paths will cross again

i just dont understand the need for these trolls to incessantly cause drama, unruly behavior, racist remarks all this is is someone who wants attention and doesnt get it in real life so they bring it here. trusty we need ways to ban these people so they dont come back as this individual has shown they will keep coming around and causing unrest in the community if something is not done

[A. P. Hill]

The problem with a few of these trolls is they have no understanding or concept of the actual conditions and history of the civil war.

They were fed the wrong information from "revisionist historians", or people who have no actual historical education.

These persons, need education to correct their misinterpretation.

Educate the trolls and petulant.

[Frederick]

well FREDERICK i see you are now back and doing the same shit as before you little kids will never learn lol and undercover as a co of a csa company you have been kicked out of other companies and you will get kicked out of this game sooner or later, i was just sad i was not on the other nite as i have been working alot but i feel our paths will cross again

i just dont understand the need for these trolls to incessantly cause drama, unruly behavior, racist remarks all this is is someone who wants attention and doesnt get it in real life so they bring it here. trusty we need ways to ban these people so they dont come back as this individual has shown they will keep coming around and causing unrest in the community if something is not done


Haha I see your the same as always, sal. Letting your anger get the better of you.

If im a good boy, I'm not going anywhere.

[Korvyr]

A vote kick option would be a catastrophe. Not that it doesn't have its merits, and not that others don't know what they're talking about far more readily than yours truly, but the simple logic of having massive groups of people banded together under their various flags and then giving them the power to vote anyone they don't like off the proverbial island...

That's only going to end poorly.

"What happened to you?"
"I charged the [insert regiment here] line, and stabbed their flag bearers and officers to death before anyone realized."
"Awesome!"
"Nah, they were so pissed the entire regiment vote-kicked me out of any servers that day..."

Absolute power corrupts absolutely.

[Sox]

If im a good boy, I'm not going anywhere.

But you won't be good, because you just can't resist. But thanks to Campfire Games your race is run, pretty soon we'll be able to put people like you on ignore, chat and voice. You'll get banned for TKing, and the rest of us can get on with actually playing the game. You race to get to the forums to defend yourself in a thread were you had not actually been named, genius. Happily the forums do already have an ignore function, so welcome to it lol.

[Frederick]

But you won't be good, because you just can't resist. But thanks to Campfire Games your race is run, pretty soon we'll be able to put people like you on ignore, chat and voice. You'll get banned for TKing, and the rest of us can get on with actually playing the game. You race to get to the forums to defend yourself in a thread were you had not actually been named, genius. Happily the forums do already have an ignore function, so welcome to it lol.


I don't TK, so i'm not going to get banned. I know i haven't been named, but i was accused of it so i presumed you were talking to me.

When a man knows he's innocent and that there is no proof to the contrary, he tends to stand up for himself.

[Melonfish]

A vote kick option would be a catastrophe. Not that it doesn't have its merits, and not that others don't know what they're talking about far more readily than yours truly, but the simple logic of having massive groups of people banded together under their various flags and then giving them the power to vote anyone they don't like off the proverbial island...

That's only going to end poorly.

"What happened to you?"
"I charged the [insert regiment here] line, and stabbed their flag bearers and officers to death before anyone realized."
"Awesome!"
"Nah, they were so pissed the entire regiment vote-kicked me out of any servers that day..."

Absolute power corrupts absolutely.

Easily sorted in setting it as team specific.

[Korvyr]

Easily sorted in setting it as team specific.

Easily broken by switching teams.

Edit: Sorry, I do play Devil's advocate a lot... We're underestimating the power of angry screeching gamers from the CoD player base who would have no issues with swapping teams just to vote-kick someone they don't like.

Edit 2: Anonymous admins that are not allowed to say "hey, i'm an admin, fear me!" would likely be fine, but giving that power to the masses is not the answer. It can easily be assuaged with a blocking/muting system that sticks and a temp ban for repeat TK offenders.

[Frederick]

I'm glad to hear you don't TK, but you tipped your hand when you stretched the SJW label to encompass all those who object to griefing and team-killing.

In this very small community, nothing is lower than deliberately shooting your team-mates in the back. If being honorable makes us all SJWs in your eyes, so be it.

No, i think team killing and griefing should be bannable offences. however, there's a difference between banning people for blasting shitty music over their microphone and being generally obnoxious, and banning people for shooting their teammates in the back.

[Sox]

Easily broken by switching teams.

Edit: Sorry, I do play Devil's advocate a lot...

Playing Devil's advocate or not, it's still true. Vote kicking is just another griefing tool. The good news from all of this has been, that at the very least, the Devs are now reviewing the systems that are in place. Hopefully the mute function for voice will be fixed soon, as well as it being tied to chat as well. Temp bans on team killing will help a lot too, I've always believed that we have to stick together as a community, and that private servers are not the answer, over the last couple of days the Devs have restored a little bit of faith for me.

[TrustyJam]

Hopefully the mute function for voice will be fixed soon

Did some testing of it when playtesting the new update - it works as intended - it carries through skirmish area changes and death. I'd be interested to hear what sort of issues you experience with it. :)

- Trusty

[Korvyr]

Did some testing of it when playtesting the new update - it works as intended - it carries through skirmish area changes and death. I'd be interested to hear what sort of issues you experience with it. :)

- Trusty

Does it carry over from server to server and game load to game load? That's what I refer to when I talk about it sticking. Play a few rounds in the morning on server A; mute buffoons X, Y, and Z; quit game to run errands; come back in the evening to play on server B and happen across same buffoons (as everyone follows the populated servers).

[TrustyJam]

Does it carry over from server to server and game load to game load? That's what I refer to when I talk about it sticking. Play a few rounds in the morning on server A; mute buffoons X, Y, and Z; quit game to run errands; come back in the evening to play on server B and happen across same buffoons (as everyone follows the populated servers).

No, it is session-based.

- Trusty

[Korvyr]

No, it is session-based.

- Trusty

Well then I suppose we have to hope people aren't repeat offenders, otherwise the re-muting will take the first couple minutes of any session when the proverbial flood gates open to early access.

[Sox]

Did some testing of it when playtesting the new update - it works as intended - it carries through skirmish area changes and death. I'd be interested to hear what sort of issues you experience with it. :)

- Trusty

Will let you know of any issues as usual. Going forward I do think that muting someone needs to be permanant.

[Ramirez Nicholas J.]

With the talk about dealing with players that are obnoxious and team killers, are there any safe guards against hackers? I imagine hackers will become more prominent when the game is in early access, or fully released.

[Frederick]

With the talk about dealing with players that are obnoxious and team killers, are there any safe guards against hackers? I imagine hackers will become more prominent when the game is in early access, or fully released.


Hacking would be very difficult in this game i imagine, given the very unforgiving mechanics. The fact that you can't really 'win' as an individual makes it really difficult, i think.

[Korvyr]

CryEngine's networking code is remarkably hardy when it comes to withstanding hacking attempts. Which isn't to say it's bulletproof.

I imagine, though, it would be enough for players to report it and the programmer(s) familiar with said code to figure out a way to patch it, or to report it to the CryEngine devs themselves.

These will have to be reactive patches instead of preventive. Not much you can do to prevent hacking until you know how/what someone is hacking.

A lot of it depends on CryEngine itself, as well. Their upgrade to a new version of the engine will certainly help on that front.

[Ramirez Nicholas J.]

I'd imagine it would be harder to hack than other games, but I'm sure someone could do aimbot or something to that effect.

[Korvyr]

I'd imagine it would be harder to hack than other games, but I'm sure someone could do aimbot or something to that effect.

Sadly there are always ways. Your computer has to receive the data one way or another to render things where they need to be in the game, and once that data is received on an individual's computer, it's very hard to limit that individual's access to all of that data.

One way is by encoding/encrypting said data, which can drastically increase latency as your game will have to translate everything it receives. Another is by watching what is happening outside of the game itself (to spot dll hooks and whatnot), which verges on the lines of spyware if you're not careful. It's a difficult line to walk, and no solution is perfect.

But I'm no expert, mind you.

[Poorlaggedman]

Who needs hacking when there's low graphics? :p



So, do you propose that Private servers are banned and that only public servers should be permitted?
if a clan/individual wants to run his own server, that's his prerogative, no? it's up to the individual(s) and units to decide what they do with it. No, that's not what I said at all I'm talking about this interim period of public servers. The gameplay should be solid before private servers are a thing. If you aren't careful then you're never going to see any of these big organizations in open servers doing anything other than prepping for an event, playing an event, or recruiting. Mark my words.


I'm fully aware who was doing the griefing, I was there, I don't need to ask. We took their names and looked them up on Steam, but then you already know that. Thanks for coming here to defend the indefensible, saved me the trouble of having to name and shame anyone. And FYI, my youngest son is 22, he's fully aware of the reality of the world, the assumption that he is a child was yours. I do not make the rules of what is right and wrong, society does, I just happen to agree with them.You need video evidence and the developers need a way of IDing players a little better. Anyone can come on as Poorlaggedman and do stupid stuff. I'm not even sure yet that I can't come on as any other player whose already in the server under the exact same name. Trolls are endlessly crafty. The best trolls don't get blamed right under the nose of inattentive admins. Another problem is there's varying degrees to trolling. Mic spamming is way down on the list in public gameplay. There's far more malicious things to worry about.

[Korvyr]

I'll be honest, If private servers were a thing, you can bet your grandmother's mittens we'd spend a lot less time on public servers if more of our members pickup the game.

I'm on board with the dev's hesitance to release private server files for the time being. We can wait. It also allows them to keep the image of their growing game in the best of lights when they can make sure all the servers are ran on quality hardware.

It won't stop us from playing and enjoying the game. We just don't have filters, so we often rub those who can't handle our gentle means of criticism the wrong way.