Officer ranks within a company

[MrAmerican]

Ok, so I've noticed a lot of companies are using a Colonel, Lt Colonel, and Major rank in a company... I thought that the highest Officer rank in a company was a Captain.
Correct me if I'm wrong. I just wanted to bring up this so that people aren't using inaccurate ranks. If I am mistaken feel free to roast me in the comments below
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[Jamez]

There is very few circumstances in which a company was lead by someone higher than a captain. Generally a company would be lead by a captain and if the captain was wounded/killed it would follow to the next person below him.

[A. P. Hill]

Ok, so I've noticed a lot of companies are using a Colonel, Lt Colonel, and Major rank in a company... I thought that the highest Officer rank in a company was a Captain.
Correct me if I'm wrong. I just wanted to bring up this so that people aren't using inaccurate ranks. If I am mistaken feel free to roast me in the comments below
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Nope, I don't see where you're wrong. Who is in the wrong though, are those listing more than company rankings per the dev's statements on starting companies. (chalk it up to people not reading enough before posting.)

[Theodor Schmidt]

WHY! WHY! WHY!


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=umDr0mPuyQc

On a more calmful note, I believe once the tool is released this problem will go away because of the physical limits.

[William]

But normally it would be :

CO´s
Captain
First Lieutenant
Second Lieutenant


NCo´s
Sergeant Major
First Sergeant
Company Quartermaster Sergeant
Sergeant
Corporal


Enlisted:
Private
(Volunteer, Recruit)

is that Right?

[Maximus Decimus Meridius]

The sergeant major is a regimental rank.

correct me if I am wrong but I think it's a regimental rank. he was the chief of the flag unit in battle.

[Bravescot]

So if you want to be accurate it would go like thus (Note that this is Infantry)

Regimental Level Ranks:
Colonel
Lieutenant Colonel
Major
Sergeant Major
Quartermaster Sergeant

Company Level Ranks:
Captain
First Lieutenant
Second Lieutenant
First Sergeant
Sergeant
Corporal
Private

[Maximus Decimus Meridius]

Regimental Level Ranks:
Colonel
Lieutenant Colonel
Major
Sergeant Major
Regiment Quartermaster Sergeant

Company Level Ranks:
Captain
First Lieutenant
Second Lieutenant
First Sergeant
Company Quartermaster Sergeant
Sergeant
Corporal
Pr

So is it correct I think. you have a company and a regimental quartermaster

[Bravescot]

No, the name of the ranks Company(Battery) Quartermaster Sergeant and Regimental Quartermaster Sergeant was Cavalry & Artillery only.

[Numitor]

Cavalry! woop woop!

[Maximus Decimus Meridius]

so than hinkel have to correct his post with the insignias of the ranks :)

[Bravescot]

so than hinkel have to correct his post with the insignias of the ranks :)

Not really xD. I made those icons and I made the Company Quartermaster Sergeant rank for Infantry just because it added in a new rank. Those with a good knowledge of the ranks would instantly spot that there was an extra rank added.

[Maximus Decimus Meridius]

So then you could write it down becasue there are people who don't know much about the american rank system (only the basics). i woundered about this rank because there was nothing comparable in the german armie(s).

[Bravescot]

So then you could write it down becasue there are people who don't know much about the american rank system (only the basics). i woundered about this rank because there was nothing comparable in the german armie(s).

This is the 1860s not NATO....obviously there will not match.

[thomas aagaard]

But there might be in the Prussian 1860 army ;-)

Anyway... go to the sources. Kautz's "Customs of Service for Non-Commissioned Officers and Soldiers" can be fond here:
https://www.dropbox.com/s/p2h616yv1stm1kv/1864%20-%20Kautz_NCOs.pdf?dl=0
Look at page 43. It give us the list for "regular army old old and new regiments, the volunteers, artillery and cavalry...

[Maximus Decimus Meridius]

This is the 1860s not NATO....obviously there will not match.


Of course they will not match. i am not retarded. i am speaking about the ranks in the armies in the german countries to this time.

[A. P. Hill]

Some general information .... :)

First, It is important to understand that most Civil War units in the field were only at anywhere between 20% to 40% of their full strength. Thus, while in theory a company contained 100 men, and would be recruited at that size, by the time they reached the army many companies would be down to 60 or so and after the first battle down to 40 or so. (The full-strength sizes are given below, so remember to knock them down by 50% or more when reading about units engaged in battles, setting up WoR units.)

Second, due to casualties among the officers, frequently units would find themselves commanded by an officer one or two grades below the rank he should have for the job (e.g., a regiment commanded by a lieutenant colonel or major, and sometimes the senior captain.)

Third, keep in mind that in the early stages of the war and in the more remote areas (such as the Trans-Mississippi), unit organizations tended to deviate from the norm. What follows are the authorized strengths, not the numbers that were actually in the field.

I. Infantry Units.

COMPANY.
The basic unit is the company, commanded by a captain
100 men = 2 platoons = 4 sections = 8 squads
A company has the following officers (commissioned and non-coms):
Captain (1), 1st. Lieut. (1), 2nd. Lieut. (1)
1st Sgt. (1), Sgts. (4) and Corporals (8). Plus 2 musicians.

When the company was divided into platoons, sometimes the captain commanded one and the 1st Lt. the other, more often, the 1st Lt. commanded one and the 2nd Lt. the other. There was a sergeant for each section, and a corporal for each squad. The 1st Sgt. "ran" the whole company.

BATTALION and REGIMENT.

Battalions and regiments were formed by organizing companies together. In the volunteers (Union and Confederate), 10 companies would be organized together into a regiment. The regiment was commanded by a colonel. A regiment has the following staff (one of each):

Col.; Lt. Col.; Major; Adjutant (1st Lt); Surgeon (maj.); Asst Surgeon (capt.); Quartermaster (lieut); Commissary (lieut); Sgt-Major; Quartermaster Sgt.

There were also volunteer organizations containing less than 10 companies: if they contained from 4-8 companies, they were called battalions, and usually were commanded by a major or lieutenant colonel. The (Union) Regular regiments organized before the war (1st-10th) were 10 company regiments like the volunteers. When the NEW Regular regiments. were authorized, a different organization was used. The new Regular regiments were organized 8 companies to a battalion and 2 battalions to the regiment. Thus new Regular regiments contained 16 companies. These regiments frequently fought as battalions rather than as single regiments. However, often the 2nd battalion could not be recruited up to strength, in which case they fought as a single regiment. In the volunteer regiments, State names were used by both sides. With the exception of the Regulars, which would usually be numbered.

BRIGADE.

A brigade is formed from 3 to 6 regiments and commanded by a brigadier general. The South tended to use more regiments than the North, thus having bigger brigades. At times, some artillery would be attached to the infantry brigade: (see the Artillery section below.) Each brigade would also have a varying number of staff officers. In the North the brigades were usually numbered, while the South often used the commanding general's name.

DIVISION.

A division is commanded by a major general and is composed of from 2 to 6 brigades. In the North usually 3 or 4, but in the South normally 4 to 6. Thus, a Southern division tended to be almost twice as large as its Northern counterpart, if the regiments were about the same size. At times, some artillery or, less often, cavalry might be attached: (see the Cavalry and Artillery sections below.) Each division would also have a varying number of staff officers. In the North, Divisions were usually numbered, while in the South, Divisions again took the name of the commanding general.

CORPS.

A corps is commanded by a major general (Union) or a lieutenant general (Confederate) and is composed of from 2 to 4 divisions. Again the North tended to have 2 or 3, while the South had 3 or 4. Each corps would also have a varying number of staff officers. Corps in both armies were assigned numbers, usually in Roman numeral style. I Corps, II Corps, and so on.

ARMIES.

Corps within a geographic department were aggregated into armies. The number of corps in an army could vary considerably: sometimes an army would contain only 1 corps and other times as many as 8. Armies were commanded by major generals in the North, and usually by full generals in the South. Corps and armies usually had artillery and cavalry attached. Each army would also have a varying number of staff officers. The Union named their armies after rivers, such as the Potomac, the Tennessee and the Mississippi, while in the South they were named for the states, or part of a state, such as Northern Virginia, Tennessee or Mississippi.

To summarize, the nominal strengths and commanding officers were:
UNIT MEN Commander Example NAME

Company 100 Captain Co. A (but not I)
Regiment 1000 Colonel 38th N.C. Infantry
Brigade 4000 Brig Genl 3rd Brigade (US) **
Division 12000 Maj. Genl Pender's Division (CS) **
Corps 36000 Maj. Genl* IIIrd Corps (US) **
Army Maj. Genl+ Army of Northern Virginia (CS) ++

* or Lieutenant General in the South
+ or General in the South
** Numerical designation was used in the North, the Commander's name was typically used in the South, e.g. A. P. Hill’s Corps.
++ The South mainly used the name of the area or state where the army operated. Rivers were used primarily as names in the North, e.g. Army of the Cumberland.

II. Cavalry.

COMPANY or TROOP.

The basic unit is the troop or company, organized pretty much the same way as an infantry company. The nominal strength was 100. If the troop dismounted for battle, 1 man in 4 would stay behind to guard the horses.

BATTALION and REGIMENT.

In the Union volunteers, 12 cavalry troops form a regiment commanded by a colonel. The Confederate Cavalry used a 10 company regiment. Again, the (Union) Regulars had a different organization: in the Regular units 2 troops form a squadron, 2 squadrons form a battalion, and 3 battalions form a regiment. And again, there were groups of 4-8 companies of volunteer cavalry which are called battalions.

BRIGADE, DIVISION, and CORPS.

Initially, each Union cavalry regiment was assigned to an infantry division. The Confederates brigaded their cavalry together. The Union eventually adopted this organization as well. As the war progressed, both sides formed cavalry divisions (again the South took the lead). The North also formed cavalry corps, and the South later also adopted this innovation.

III. Artillery.

BATTERY.

The basic unit of artillery is the battery, which has 4 to 6 guns, is commanded by a captain, and has 4 lieutenants, 4 sergeants and 8 corporals, and 120 privates. It typically had 4 guns in the South and 6 guns in the North. Batteries were a subdivided into sections with gun crews of 20, contain half the guns in the battery. A gun crew was commanded by a sergeant and a section by a lieutenant.

BATTALION or BRIGADE.

At the start of the war, the South usually attached a battery to each Regiment, and the North attached a battery or two, to a Division, plus an artillery reserve under the army commander. By mid-1862, larger organizations were used. The basic unit contained 3 or 4 batteries of artillery; it was called a battalion in the South and a brigade in the North (same unit, just a different name) and it was commanded by a colonel, lieutenant colonel, or major.

ARTILLERY RESERVE.

Corps or Armies had a reserve of two to five battalions of Artillery. Each division's artillery usually fought along side the infantry, while the corps/army reserves were used to form the massed batteries. The artillery reserve was commanded by a brigadier general or colonel.

HEAVY ARTILLERY.

The Union organized some "heavy artillery" units, regiments containing 10 artillery batteries (about 1800 men) which had training both as infantry and as artillerists. They were organized in much the same way as infantry units, but were quite a bit larger to provide enough men to run the bigger guns in these batteries. Originally raised to man the defenses of Washington, in 1864 they joined the Grant's army, and then served more as infantry. Many of these men lost their lives during the Battle of Cold Harbor north of Richmond in the Summer of 1864.

IV. ENGINEERS.

Both sides raised special regiments of engineers. They were organized similarly to the infantry regiments and were expert in building forts, entrenchments, bridges, and similar military construction. They were combatants but usually didn't do any fighting, instead continued to work on construction even when under fire.

VI. SHARPSHOOTERS.

Both sides raised special sharpshooter units. The Confederate units tended to be independent companies, but the Union raised two sharpshooter regiments (Berdan's 1st and 2nd US Sharpshooters). These regiments were organized as infantry. Usually they were assigned to skirmish duty.

Union Corps & Division Badges. (http://www.civilwarwiki.net/wiki/Union_Corps_%26_Division_Badges)

Union Insignia. (http://www.civilwarwiki.net/wiki/Union_Insignia_of_the_Civil_War)

Confederate Insignia. (http://www.civilwarwiki.net/wiki/Confederate_Insignia_of_the_Civil_War)

Powell
1786

[William]

No, the name of the ranks Company(Battery) Quartermaster Sergeant and Regimental Quartermaster Sergeant was Cavalry & Artillery only.

really hmmm you never stop learning :P

[thomas aagaard]

Some general information .... :)

First, It is important to understand that most Civil War units in the field were only at anywhere between 20% to 40% of their full strength.
Too low numbers. At gettysburg the average regiment size for the Union was 375men... and that is the battle with the smallest average for the AoP.. and that is 37.5%+


The basic tactical unit is the battalion.
Two or more companies operating as one unit = battalion. That is the designation used in the drill books.
Regiment is an administrative name..

Rarely did companies operate on their own... simply too small.
(in some European armies - Prussian and danish, the company was the basic tactical unit... but here we are talking 200 rank and file companies and four companies to a battalion).

Most of the orders would be given by the battalion commander... and the company commanders are mostly involved in helping during evolutions.
(just take a look in School of the battalion... the only firing order where the captains yell anything is "fire by company" in all other cases the COL do the yelling)
The company was the unit that did most of the administrative work...

And you only split your company into the two platoons, and each platoon into two sections..
Squads are not a tactical unit but what you call a small group of men, that is not a section. And it is mainly something you use during drill.

[A. P. Hill]

You're going to critique me based on a single battle's figures? Frankly, my 40 percent covers your 37.5 percent ... where's the problem?

Don't get me wrong here, but I really think we're on the same page.

[Bravescot]

You're going to critique me based on a single battle's figures? Frankly, my 40 percent covers your 37.5 percent ... where's the problem?

Don't get me wrong here, but I really think we're on the same page.

Bit of a harsh reply there. He can critique you if he wishes, how he wishes.

[Octavian360]

Some general information .... :)

First, It is important to understand that most Civil War units in the field were only at anywhere between 20% to 40% of their full strength. Thus, while in theory a company contained 100 men, and would be recruited at that size, by the time they reached the army many companies would be down to 60 or so and after the first battle down to 40 or so. (The full-strength sizes are given below, so remember to knock them down by 50% or more when reading about units engaged in battles, setting up WoR units.)

Second, due to casualties among the officers, frequently units would find themselves commanded by an officer one or two grades below the rank he should have for the job (e.g., a regiment commanded by a lieutenant colonel or major, and sometimes the senior captain.)

Third, keep in mind that in the early stages of the war and in the more remote areas (such as the Trans-Mississippi), unit organizations tended to deviate from the norm. What follows are the authorized strengths, not the numbers that were actually in the field.

I. Infantry Units.

COMPANY.
The basic unit is the company, commanded by a captain
100 men = 2 platoons = 4 sections = 8 squads
A company has the following officers (commissioned and non-coms):
Captain (1), 1st. Lieut. (1), 2nd. Lieut. (1)
1st Sgt. (1), Sgts. (4) and Corporals (8). Plus 2 musicians.

When the company was divided into platoons, sometimes the captain commanded one and the 1st Lt. the other, more often, the 1st Lt. commanded one and the 2nd Lt. the other. There was a sergeant for each section, and a corporal for each squad. The 1st Sgt. "ran" the whole company.

BATTALION and REGIMENT.

Battalions and regiments were formed by organizing companies together. In the volunteers (Union and Confederate), 10 companies would be organized together into a regiment. The regiment was commanded by a colonel. A regiment has the following staff (one of each):

Col.; Lt. Col.; Major; Adjutant (1st Lt); Surgeon (maj.); Asst Surgeon (capt.); Quartermaster (lieut); Commissary (lieut); Sgt-Major; Quartermaster Sgt.

There were also volunteer organizations containing less than 10 companies: if they contained from 4-8 companies, they were called battalions, and usually were commanded by a major or lieutenant colonel.

It is also important to note that the Union Volunteer Regiments were not as regulated compared to the Union Regular Regiments. For example, within the Chandler's Drill Manual used by Wisconsin Volunteer units, the average Company size was stated to be 72 including all the prescribed above. However, I believe it was the 72nd Penns Volunteer's went into battle with 1,500 at one point.

I think it is important to distinguish the different number and organizational structures between the Regular and Volunteer units on the Union side; they often get meshed together. I am not sure if this is the same for the Confederate units though.

[thomas aagaard]

You're going to critique me based on a single battle's figures? Frankly, my 40 percent covers your 37.5 percent ... where's the problem?

Don't get me wrong here, but I really think we're on the same page.

That the 37,5% is the lowest number for AoP... Sherman is even lower at 30,5% but they where nowhere near 20%...
"According to Fiebeger the average company strength at Gettysburg was 32 officers and men per company. Livermore gives these average regimental strengths in the Union army at various periods: Shiloh, 560; Fair Oaks, 650; Chancellorsville, 530; Gettysburg, 375; Chickamauga and the Wilderness, 440; and in Sherman's battles of May '64, 305. According to Bigelow the average strength of Federal regiments at Chancellorsville was 433 and of Confederate regiments 409."
http://www.civilwarhome.com/armyorganization.html

Writing 40-50% would be more correct and give the reader a much better idea about the actual size of the regiments.


For example, within the Chandler's Drill Manual used by Wisconsin Volunteer units, the average Company size was stated to be 72 including all the prescribed above.


And another who knows about Chandler :-)
pretty rare considering that his book is not easily found online...
But he actually tell us that the companies should average 72 rank and file... so only counting privates and corporals.

So we need to add 3 officers and 5 sergeants and we get a total of 80 men pr. company.
Add the Colonel , Lt colonel and Major + adjutant and sergeant major and we are at 805men in the battalion.

He also mention the quartermaster the surgeon and his assistant... but nothing about the rest of the staff... or musicians.

[Octavian360]

And another who knows about Chandler :-)
pretty rare considering that his book is not easily found online...
But he actually tell us that the companies should average 72 rank and file... so only counting privates and corporals.

So we need to add 3 officers and 5 sergeants and we get a total of 80 men pr. company.
Add the Colonel , Lt colonel and Major + adjutant and sergeant major and we are at 805men in the battalion.

He also mention the quartermaster the surgeon and his assistant... but nothing about the rest of the staff... or musicians.

We currently use the Chandler's Drill Manual for our Volunteer and NCO Training; we had to contact one of the few places which had an original copy of it to scan us the document. You are correct, I meant to say 72 rank and file, my brain was going too fast. In regards to company quartermaster along with musicians we did some digging in the muster rolls of our unit.

It is worth mentioning as well that the Ordnance Sergeant rank was mainly used by the Regular Army, it was very rarely used or adopted by the Volunteer Regiments.

[William]

Bit of a harsh reply there. He can critique you if he wishes, how he wishes.

he aswell just critiqued him as he wished how he wished xD

[Shadow765]

I wanna make a Cavalary regiment, but I'm confused to which rank should I use.

Is it Colonel>LtColonel>Major>1stLt>Sergeant Major>First Sergeant>Company Quartermaster Sergeant>Sergeant>Corporal>Private>Volunteer

Or is it Captain>1stLt>2ndLt>Sergent Major>First Sergeant>Company Quartermaster Sergeant>Sergeant>Corporal>Private>Volunteer

Thx

[Bravescot]

For a cavalry company it is as follows

Captain>1stLt>2ndLt>First Sergeant>Company Quartermaster Sergeant>Sergeant>(Optional: Farrier)>Corporal>(Optional: Blacksmith)>Private

[thomas aagaard]

he aswell just critiqued him as he wished how he wished xD
Difference is, I was correct, he was not.


I wanna make a Cavalary regiment, but I'm confused to which rank should I use.

Is it Colonel>LtColonel>Major>1stLt>Sergeant Major>First Sergeant>Company Quartermaster Sergeant>Sergeant>Corporal>Private>Volunteer

Or is it Captain>1stLt>2ndLt>Sergent Major>First Sergeant>Company Quartermaster Sergeant>Sergeant>Corporal>Private>Volunteer

Thx

I suggest your reread this topic.
Some of the ranks are battalion level ranks and some or company level.
Two different things. And you simply can't make a chain like that.
The Adjutant, the officer of the day (usually a captain), officer of the guards and the sergeant major would all give orders to the company commanders during the daily routines of army life...
Colonel, LtColonel, Major, "Adjutant"(who is usually a LT), Quartermaster sergeant, Sergeant Major, Veterinary Sergeant. Commissary Sergeant. Hospital Stewards. Chief Trumpeter and Saddler Sergeant are all ranks/positions used in a cavalry battalion staff.

At the company level you got captains, 1st Lts, 2nd LTs, First sergeants, Company Quartermaster sergeants, Commissary Sergeants, Sergeants, and corporals... and privates...


We currently use the Chandler's Drill Manual for our Volunteer and NCO Training; we had to contact one of the few places which had an original copy of it to scan us the document. (...)
It is worth mentioning as well that the Ordnance Sergeant rank was mainly used by the Regular Army, it was very rarely used or adopted by the Volunteer Regiments.
I would guess the one that belonged to a LT strong in the 5th Wisconsin? Held at University of Wisconsin?

Ordnance Sergeant was, I believe part of The Ordnance Department... and they where not posted to regiments but forts, armories and similar postings.

[Shadow765]

Thanks for all the answers :D, I'm in between cavalary and infantry

[George]

it happened. for example at Fredericksberg with the 24th Georgia, Thomas R. R. Cobb was a Brigadier General at the time of Fredericksberg, but was leading a regiment, not a brigade.

generally speaking though, you are correct, a Major was responsible for discipline in the entire regiment, while a CSM was responsible for discipline in the specific companies and generally still is to this day.

[thomas aagaard]

CSM?

If that is short for company sergeant major... you are wrong. They didn't exist.(at lest not according to regulation - can't rule out that it is possible to find one somewhere...)

The sergeant major was a Battalion position and there was just that one in a Battalion.

It was the "orderly sergeant" (a job not a rank) who was responsible for drill and discipline in the company and that was handled by the First Sergeant (a rank) Who ran the company during its daily routine.

[George]

no i meant the CSM existing nowadays. CSM is a position not a rank. in the US Army, CSM doesn't exist. its more of a Commonwealth thing. instead, in the US i do believe its First Sergeant.

[JaegerCoyote]

There is a CSM as a leadership position in the US Army, it stands for Command Sergeant Major and they are the highest NCO in a unit. but in the Civil War, the highest company NCO is a First Sergeant, the Sergeant Major is battalion and higher.

[George]

There is a CSM as a leadership position in the US Army, it stands for Command Sergeant Major and they are the highest NCO in a unit. but in the Civil War, the highest company NCO is a First Sergeant, the Sergeant Major is battalion and higher.


CSM in the U.S Army holds a different role to CSM in the Commonwealth countries. the rank however for the CSM in the US Army is still Sergeant Major, hence you address any CSM in the US Army as Sgt. Major. CSM is a position, not a rank.

[JaegerCoyote]

Oh, I misunderstood what you meant.