Artillery Companies ...

[A. P. Hill]

Here's a link to some "light" reading on the operation and function of artillery. Enjoy! (https://books.google.com/books?id=xiKdwlGeBPUC&pg=PA1&lr=&source=gbs_selected_pages&cad=2#v=onepage&q&f=false)

OR, if you get bored with that, you can always try this one. :) Enjoy just as much! (https://books.google.com/books?id=wwY6DT2Sc_cC&printsec=frontcover&source=gbs_ge_summary_r&cad=0#v=onepage&q&f=false)

1797

Powell.

[Simon445]

Very interesting.

[zerosius]

Thank You! Very engaging read :)

[George]

1864...

for 1862, you'll need to find out what type of artillery you want, e.g mounted, light or heavy. they all had different manuals.

you cant forget that 2 years made a massive difference in this time, it was the height of the industrial revolution after all.

[Gandalf]

Hmm... so for all of us artillery companies, would we need to choose one type of artillery to specialize at? Or would we have access to each type?

Also, the manuals were both very interesting and informative. Thanks for posting them here. ;)

[Rithal]

Hmm... so for all of us artillery companies, would we need to choose one type of artillery to specialize at? Or would we have access to each type?

I imagine that will be up to the admins of the server you are playing on. :)

[Maximus Decimus Meridius]

i think you should have access to all gun types.

[von-Winkler]

The question is, how many types of cannons will be available in the game.
Cannons, mortars, howitzers, heavy siege artillery etc.

[A. P. Hill]

Only the types that were present in the Maryland Campaign, for now. When we expand, and different equipment will be required for that expansion, then it will be added.

[Hinkel]

The question is, how many types of cannons will be available in the game.
Cannons, mortars, howitzers, heavy siege artillery etc.

Like Hill already said, the artillery which was used at Antietam.

If you check the reports from that battle, you have tons of different pieces, like 10lb Parrots, 6lb Smoothbores, 3-in Ordnances, 12lb Napoleons, 12lb Whitworth, 12lb Howitzers, Hotchkiss RML's, and others.
So they will be represented ingame :)

[Maximus Decimus Meridius]

will be the artillery moveable? I think and hope so but which limbers will they use? What i exactly mean: Will be Horse- artillery ingame? And the little mountain gun (Berggeschütz Sry don't know the right expression )

[A. P. Hill]

The plans are:

The artillery will be set up as it was during the campaign. Horse drawn with limbers and cassions trains, including traveling forges and battery wagons.

That said, the actual pieces may have to be moved with man power at first, as horses and mules have not yet been constructed.

As I said in another thread, IT WILL BE GRAND!!!!

[zerosius]

That sounds great :)

[A. P. Hill]

The question is, how many types of cannons will be available in the game.
Cannons, mortars, howitzers, heavy siege artillery etc.

With this question, here is a 3 part article on the Artillery specifically applied at Antietam. (http://www.nps.gov/anti/learn/historyculture/arty.htm)

Enjoy.

[SemajRednaxela]

Always happy to read up on previously unread text.

Keep up the good work.

[Landree]

Fantastic! To actually have a full artillery system in the game is excellent!

[von-Winkler]

Good article. Looking forward to see the first Field Report with artillery guns.

[Sneaky Cheese]

What is the process of reserving artillery?
do you take the whole battalion of artillery (the artillery equivalent to a regiment) OR do you just take a battery?

- Cheers Sneaky Cheese

[A. P. Hill]

In the case of the confederate situation, early on, batteries were assigned to brigades. IF a brigade or a division got into a scrape and didn't have enough artillery, (i.e., theirs not near the field, have to leave and go re-supply, etc.,) the reserve was supposed to be a deposit where any and all organizations could pull back up or needed artillery.

In many cases with this situation where a battery was assigned to a brigade, if artillery was needed on another part of the field, batteries would not go assist other units because they thought they belonged to a particular brigade/division.

So the reserve acted as a repository where any unit could draw needed back up or supply.

Hopefully that made sense.

[Sneaky Cheese]

yeh I get it now

thx 4 explaining that Mr Hill

- Cheers Sneaky Cheese

[A. P. Hill]

Here is a Battery Organization Chart based on period publications. (https://www.dropbox.com/s/u4h8n3sz35eoyqx/battery%20components.htm?dl=0)

Note, this is an actual real period organization chart only, but it will give you an idea of the complexity of a battery.

[A. P. Hill]

Revised the above Organization Chart. :)

Enjoy.

[Edward Porter Alexander]

Thanks for the read!

[A. P. Hill]

Revised Yet again. :)

[A. P. Hill]

Since there seems to be some conversation picking up on Artillery, I thought I'd resurrect this thread, as there are quite a few good links available.

Please click the link for the Organization chart of a typical battery.

Enjoy.

4852

[zerosius]

I remember reading through it a while back, but right now the link seems to be dead :P

[A. P. Hill]

I remember reading through it a while back, but right now the link seems to be dead :P

Alrighty, just tried to refresh it.

[zerosius]

Awesome, thank you!

[General. Jackson]

Good shit Hill, at it again.

[Colum O'Brien]

Super hyped for artillery! I loved leading and even simply being apart of it in the mount and blade mods. Here is a fun video to help you understand how many men was needed for general guns and how to load them... it might help you in giving orders.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cy99rH16gQk

[A. P. Hill]

Good shit Hill, at it again.

Thanks. (I think! :) )

[RhettVito]

How to fire a Civil War Cannon


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tPRoCAqvs6o

[Kyle422]

Pretty cool videos, I can not wait for arty!!

[Colum O'Brien]

Will it work like this I wondrer, even back in nw my squads would sometimes have difficulty.

[A. P. Hill]

The point to remember, this isn't NW.
Rules, errant understanding of the workings of the era, limitations of the game engine, the developers lack of enthusiasm for authenticity, etc.,that plague NW are not carried into this work, since it is free from that legacy.

The developers of WoR have vast reserves of knowledgeable sources, they have a will and a desire to make this as close to accurately portray real events as they can. So with the difference in engines/software, and everything already mentioned, I see the developers making every effort to make every aspect of this project work as close to real life use as possible.

As I have said in other threads on this topic, IT WILL be glorious.

[zerosius]

I have to ask Hinkel if they need help with modelling the guns :D I cant wait for artillery! The sooner, the better!

[Colum O'Brien]

What I meant General. Hill, is that some of my men couldn't even load the cannons fast enough in NW for a while until I beat them into shape. If it is going to be more complicated to load guns in WoR then it will take more time to beat them into shape, unless they do a system similar to the muskets where it is all one animation. I don't mind either way and i like the idea of beating an efficient team who does everything manually.

[A. P. Hill]

What I meant General. Hill, is that some of my men couldn't even load the cannons fast enough in NW for a while until I beat them into shape. If it is going to be more complicated to load guns in WoR then it will take more time to beat them into shape, unless they do a system similar to the muskets where it is all one animation. I don't mind either way and i like the idea of beating an efficient team who does everything manually.

I do not doubt this is true. And for it to work properly in WoR, it should be as difficult as it was for real.
Training and drilling should be key to any branch of the military to function properly. :)

[Ted]

I do not doubt this is true. And for it to work properly in WoR, it should be as difficult as it was for real.
Training and drilling should be key to any branch of the military to function properly. :)

I've allways enjoyed teaching my NCOs how real artillery would have operated during the Napoleonic Wars instead of the system seen in M&B NW, so I'm really looking forward to this. Artillerycrews must work like a machine: Everyone needs to do his assigned tasks as good and fast as possible, however fun must not come too short - I'm really looking forward to see how artillery is going to work in this game.

Thank you for providing all of this information to us Hill!

[A. P. Hill]

Thought I'd try something different. :)

According to artillery manuals of the period, the arrangement below was a standard battery arranged for field service. This would be more accurate to portray the Federal artillery as they were more likely to have 6 gun batteries. The Confederacy, because of hardware and manpower shortages often had 4 gun batteries, so just subtract one whole section for the CSA.


https://i.imgur.com/3LebVDH.png

[PikeStance]

What is the ultimate size of the server? I heard 150. If that is so, that is 75 per side (more or less). If one battery will take up 40 or so positions, that leaves a cant 35 positions for infantry, not to mention the huge disparity of firepower.

I also noticed that "Companies" are not full companies. (not a criticism, just an observation). If they are going to be scaled down versions of companies, then maybe artillery should be as well. Two instead of 6 or 4.

[McMuffin]

What is the ultimate size of the server? I heard 150. If that is so, that is 75 per side (more or less). If one battery will take up 40 or so positions, that leaves a cant 35 positions for infantry, not to mention the huge disparity of firepower.

I also noticed that "Companies" are not full companies. (not a criticism, just an observation). If they are going to be scaled down versions of companies, then maybe artillery should be as well. Two instead of 6 or 4.

They want servers to be larger, and if I were to guess, I would say probably 250 would cap it out.

[A. P. Hill]

What is the ultimate size of the server? I heard 150. If that is so, that is 75 per side (more or less). If one battery will take up 40 or so positions, that leaves a cant 35 positions for infantry, not to mention the huge disparity of firepower.

I also noticed that "Companies" are not full companies. (not a criticism, just an observation). If they are going to be scaled down versions of companies, then maybe artillery should be as well. Two instead of 6 or 4.

Don't set your limitations to what you currently see in game. The ultimate future for this game is to remove the skirmish areas and open the whole 5KM Square Map of Antietam as a general battlefield. Limiting players to 75 per side would be pointless on a map of that size.

As McMuffin states, the populations will grow over time. It has taken quite a while to get to the 150 Cap currently in play. So there is no doubt that if the softwares/clients/etc., can handle it, population limits will grow.

And yes, some "companies" are not full, in fact if you look through the Company Tool you'll find every unit that was involved in the 1862 Maryland Campaign is listed. Many of those units have 0 players associated with them, but they are there for that time as the gamer population grows as well as the server populations grow.

You have to remember access to actual play has been limited until recently, and even with that influx, there will remain companies that do not have full quotas. Currently to be qualified as a reserved unit, membership has to reach and hold 10 players. That reservation of a unit can be lost if the players fall out of the unit and it falls below 10. Companies can be claimed by anyone at anytime until it reaches that coveted 10. After that they are limited to 100 players max. Just like real companies.

Also don't confuse historical information that's posted as information purposes and teaching to be a direct indication of game population progress. There is nothing in my earlier post showing "A Paper Battery" for the Federal Side even implying that it has anything other than informational purposes toward the game and the players.


There is nothing more as a purist and a historian I would love to see more than to have complete and fully complimented units, it's all in the future. I have no doubt the developers can do it.

[PikeStance]

That's good to know!

Thank you both

[Leifr]

There is nothing more as a purist and a historian I would love to see more than to have complete and fully complimented units, it's all in the future. I have no doubt the developers can do it.

We chose the 8th Virginia as they would be much easier to replicate on the field than probably any other regiment in game. They turned up to South Mountain on 14th September with only 34 men, and then 22 to Sharpsburg. :p

[Wilhelm Dunkel]

Giant map will be cool, but I do not know how many people and coordination that would require.

[A. P. Hill]

Now that artillery is out on the test server, please note the following:

Also quick note, as everyone was running around with artillery rounds in their hands and wondering what to do.

The guns need sponged first, sponging only works from the number 1 position.
After sponging, the rounds can be inserted, (only one at a time,) and this is done from the number 2 position. Sponging needs to occur after every shot fired.

Elevation of the tube, and inserting the primer can only happen from the Gunner's position. And can be performed by just about anyone.

The pivoting of the piece, usually performed by the number 3 man, can also be done by anyone. Pivoting can be done at any time, including while being sighted from the gunner's position.

Hope this helps some

[A. P. Hill]

The following Link will take you to an online magazine called "The American Artilleryman". This is the Summer 2016 issue.

On page 36 it starts an article entitled "School of the Piece" This is a must for every artilleryman.

LINK (https://issuu.com/artillerymanmagazine/docs/spring-2016-artilleryman-magazine/36)


The differences here are all players in game come with a Sponge/Rammer, exception is the Captain of the Battery. That being said, game positions will be hyphenated in that the Number 2 man will actually take his position and that of the Number 5, and Number 6 men. There is no vent service in game yet, except for priming the piece, so theoretically the only job for Number 3 is the Trail Handspike. The Gunner, (Corporal,) can sight and elevate the gun then vacate the spot to allow for a Number 4 man to prime the piece and fire it on command using the left mouse button. All the crew men identified with Numbers are all privates.

If you want a Number 5 and Number 6, you can rotate turns with the Number 2 man to load the piece. Finally there's a single sergeant per gun, and he is over all the previous listed crew.

A Pair of crews as defined above are under the command of a Lieutenant. So with a 6 gun Battery, there'll be a 1st Lt, and two 2nd Lt.

Round out your battery with one First Sergeant, and one Quartermaster Sergeant.

The caissons are nonfunctional at this time and the Ammo Chest on the Limber is limited to 25 rounds as the tray is currently nonremovable.

Hope this help all you Battery Crews.

[PanzerSani]

My understanding is that Ordnance Sergeants were assigned to forts and not to units in the field.

But beyond that, is there any plan to allow for venting, manual fuse cutting, and use of sights, cannon levels, and other aiming equipment etc?

[A. P. Hill]

Edited and corrected.

[Bradley]

...is there any plan to allow for venting, manual fuse cutting, and use of sights, cannon levels, and other aiming equipment etc?

It is my very strongly held opinion, speaking only as a player and not on behalf of the team, that:

(1) Stopping the vent should be a step which is added to the game as an incentive for players to work together on a single piece, or allow for catastrophic failures if someone is working a gun by themselves. I am not a programmer and so I'll admit I am not sure what this would look like or how it would work.

(2) Pricking the powder bag should be added to the priming animation. No extra work for the player, just an added couple of seconds of animation. To skip this step in the process is like not adding the percussion cap on a musket. Makes no sense. I haven't timed it, but I swear I can load a cannon in War of Rights faster than I can load a musket, and that makes zero sense at all.

(3) Officers and NCO's should have the option to equip a gun sight, just like you can switch to a weapon or binoculars, and doing so when you enter the "elevating screw" adds a second of an animation which places the sight on the gun. I would add just a pinch of zoom to sighted guns. When you "f" away from the gun, the animation automatically removes the sight.

(4) I personally think fuse cutting should be added to the game, but I don't hate the way it is working right now and, honestly, I could see trying to get a pub player to cut my fuse correctly could be an absolute nightmare and make artillery basically unplayable.

[Maximus Decimus Meridius]

It is my very strongly held opinion, speaking only as a player and not on behalf of the team, that:

(1) Stopping the vent should be a step which is added to the game as an incentive for players to work together on a single piece, or allow for catastrophic failures if someone is working a gun by themselves. I am not a programmer and so I'll admit I am not sure what this would look like or how it would work.

(2) Pricking the powder bag should be added to the priming animation. No extra work for the player, just an added couple of seconds of animation. To skip this step in the process is like not adding the percussion cap on a musket. Makes no sense. I haven't timed it, but I swear I can load a cannon in War of Rights faster than I can load a musket, and that makes zero sense at all.

(3) Officers and NCO's should have the option to equip a gun sight, just like you can switch to a weapon or binoculars, and doing so when you enter the "elevating screw" adds a second of an animation which places the sight on the gun. I would add just a pinch of zoom to sighted guns. When you "f" away from the gun, the animation automatically removes the sight.

(4) I personally think fuse cutting should be added to the game, but I don't hate the way it is working right now and, honestly, I could see trying to get a pub player to cut my fuse correctly could be an absolute nightmare and make artillery basically unplayable.

more or less exactly my point of view. Also worming should be added to balance the reloading speed which is hilarious at the moment.

Stopping the vent and manual fuze cutting would improve the teamgameplay for artillery because people would need to work together and will also slow down the reloading speed.

The actual system doesnt fit the game and it's targets in my mind but it is a good system for a first iteration. You guys made a fantastic job with the arti and it is on the way to a real simulation. (as far as i can judge as a guy with no experience) It would be a shame if you stop there and go on with laser pointer system. I hope you guys find a way and a solution for fuze cutting etc because in my mind you are very clsoe to perfection.

keep it up!

[Oleander]

I have no objections to anything above, except worming which was only used to remove loaded rounds. The reload speed is about right, the video with Art Alphin live firing a gun at about a round every 45 seconds which is about what you see in game if they roll the gun back into battery.

[repooC]

The only thing that ticks me of regarding arty is the fact that you need like 5 whacks to clap a rebel if he charges at you, i think a ramrod should do the same damage like a riflebutt. So you can actually fight off Rambos and the likes without begging the infantry for help and being ignored anyways. Just my opinion here.