What's up with fences?

[Poorlaggedman]

They're way too protective in this game and are represented as a dominating defensive position where a sure kill shot becomes "you have to shoot the same guy 4-5 or even 9-10 times to get a kill shot.

I happened to be using a licensed battlefield guide for my work and I asked him a couple questions about fences --not that he's the authority but these guys are absolute beasts I know, having taken the first phase of the exam myself this last December.I asked him his opinion on the protection provided by the fences and he said it didn't offer much at all. I asked only because he mentioned the park's effort to restore the landscape to it's battle appearance and we were questioning the placement of some walls and fences. Worm fences were typically deconstructed and the contents piled up, he said -- or burned for firewood. They were not seen as ready made fighting positions but obstacles. Hits on the rails would clearly result in more ricochets (right through the fence) than anything else.

I'm sure everyone here is familiar with the famous photo of Confederate dead at Antietam along a post-and-rail fence. Yes---those things were sturdy. Often for the sake of allowing cattle to be driven down the roads. Yes, you had the advantage of being able to steady your rifle on it (implement). But that's it.... It's lackluster cover in the real world. I quote Rufus Dawes, 6th Wisconsin official battle report from July 1st Gettysburg,

"I filed to the right and rear, to throw my line in front of his advancing line. My men kept up a steady double-quick, never faltering or breaking under the fire, which had become very galling. When my line had reached a fence on the Chambersburg turnpike, about 40 rods from the line of the enemy, I ordered a fire by file. This checked the advance of the rebels, who took refuge in a railroad cut (an unfinished railroad cut through the ridge west of the seminary), from which they opened a murderous fire upon us. I immediately ordered the men over the fence, with a view to charging the cut."

A murderous fire? Behind a fence? The Chambersburg Pike, no less-- it was for a toll road not a farmer's boundary fence. I've never seen any line take significant casualties behind a fence over any period of time other than extreme close range in this game. No, really -- one of the larger units could test this but we all know the answer. Fences are sucking up most bullets that are thrown towards them.

Same situation... from a park ranger interpreter at 24:01 (linked)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KKXuItHHpgw&t=24m1s

"Not very good protection at all."

Antietam -- Bloody Lane. What of the worm fence on either side? War of Rights shows it like the park service at Antietam has it for tourists. Did the Confederates seriously use a worm fence for protection or was it the sunken lane that offered the majority of the protection? Nobody calls it "Bloody Worm Fence." No, they deconstructed the fence and piled it up. Find me a source where someone credits a fence with being a great defensive position. Every fence is a great position in this game. Heck, people hug against them even if it means taking fire down the files.




Math tells me a number of bullets are going to go through. Yet everywhere I aim the results are the same. 9/10 bullets have no effect. Fences are fortified positions currently in WoR. All these adjustments to the team morale are being made based on the flow of the battle when fences are being fortified positions. It's great the development is coming along like it is but clearly there is an issue with fences providing unreal amounts of cover. I notice myself being wounded numerous times behind a fence when hit when I'm not normally experiencing so many wounds before death. I was hit up to five times once. Are bullets impacting the fence losing 90% of their kill power? Are they disappearing into a worm hole? What's up with that?

[Fancy Sweetroll]

Currently bullets are unable to penetrate any object, though they should be able to go through the gaps at all distances, though I agree with the feeling of your shot seeming to be almost pointless if you are not sitting right next to the gaps when firing. The bullet system does support penetration of objects, we have just disabled it for now. I may look into adding a random chance of having the bullet penetrate relatively thin objects.

[JohnDewitt]

The bullets can go through the gaps but the further away you get the less likely it is. At the moment even if you compensate for the worsening accuracy at range too few bullets slip through the gaps it seems. This may be something with collision detection being a raycast which extends somewhat beyond the projectile (e.g. basically the projectile has an invisible ray which extends some distance in front of it) which determines what was hit. Obviously if you throw a rod (which is what the game sees the bullet as), at a curving trajectory, it has far less of a change of going through a gap than a bullet.

[Legion]

I notice myself being wounded numerous times behind a fence when hit when I'm not normally experiencing so many wounds before death. I was hit up to five times once. Are bullets impacting the fence losing 90% of their kill power? Are they disappearing into a worm hole? What's up with that?

This would actually make since in a way. The bullet would lose a lot of velocity once it hits a fence rail. Also, the chances of a projectile going through a rail is small, lead is very soft and the bullets are going at a pretty slow velocity.

[McMuffin]

While I do agree with you Poorlaggedman, this just sounds like something where you need to wait and let the developers get to it. Fixing fences to be less protective is most likely low on their list right now. Although, the snake fences are much less protective than most people think and someone can most certainly hit you. The regular fences are a different story, and those are the ones that bullets get sucked into, never to emerge again.

[Poorlaggedman]

I think it's a matter of it just being way unnaturally hard to get a hit through a fence rail. What's so frustrating is I've deliberately tried a lot of different points of aiming and it doesn't seem to matter. Very seldom do you get a hit through it. A ricocheting bullet which was hardly curtailed in it's flight should be very likely to put you out of action. I understand the soft lead bullets but they weren't that bad. Ricochets happen and spent bullets may not get through a lot of stuff in various situations. Knew a guy where a bullet went through his body armor but stopped cold in his muscle, where it is today. It's just math though... the fence should take about 50% of projectiles at most and it feels utterly pointless to try shooting through one the way it is.

I also concur they seem to literally suck bullets up. Being on the giving end behind cover *might* also cause this. I've seen some (presumably) visual glitches that I've recorded where my bullet stopped in mid air on both edges of a tree on East woods. It damages the integrity of the game. People want to have faith their rounds are going somewhere with minimal question. When you experience so many discrepancies you begin to doubt it constantly and that's just bad for the product.

[A. P. Hill]

Alpha!

[McMuffin]

Alpha!

Yep. While I do understand the frustration, it is an Alpha (and this is a very valid situation to point that out).

[Bivoj]

Because it is an Alpha, we are sharing the feedback here.